+ 16 IGF-1 on GoldTrope… Eating my words
Some back story. A member on here posted IGF-1 on 5ius of this goldtrope and his IGF-1 levels were under 200. So I said that shit is underdosed, you should be over 400 if not higher. iGF-1 is not that variable. And I always thought it was strange that these generic GHs are testing so high in purity and many are even overdosed, but people frequently test below where I thought they should be on a given dose (not everyone but a decent % of people). So I thought it must be something with the biological activity, which labs like Jano can’t and don’t measure. Key jumped in and said no, this GH has been tested for biological activity in the past and it’s legit. So I gently called him out and said I’ve got 10+ years of IGF-1 tests on myself that have been very consistent, send me some to test and I’ll do bloodwork and I’ll eat my words if in wrong. Didn’t really expect him to take me up on that but he very quickly did. He was pretty confident in his product. And it turns out I was wrong. Where I’m at is where I’d expect, or even slightly above for 4-5ius.
I’ve been on 4ius for the last few months and that dose on pharm grade Omnitrope had me at 425. I was on the GT for 10 days before I did blood work. I started off just continuing at 4iu and a few days before I did bloodwork I bumped up to 5ius. It’s possible I would have been even higher if I waited a few more days at 5iu. It takes 6 days for IGF-1 to peak on a given dose and I was only the 5ius for maybe 3-4 days. But regardless this is a stellar result. Only real difference in sides I noticed between the GT and omnitrope is some water retention in my hands, and some CTS, which is likely caused by the water retention.
Couple other interesting points. My liver seems to be quite pissed off right now and it had no effect on my igf-1 levels. Some people have been making a big deal about liver stress and IGF-1. I’m not going to generalize and say it’s a non issue for everyone, but it definitely has no effect on me and I think it’s getting blown out of proportion. My values are likely high from a combination of accutane and training hard.
My lipids are another interesting point. TRT had a pretty significant impact on them. My HDL is genetically low usually around low 40s and trt dropped it to 25. My lDL pre trt was around 100 and trt increased it to 123 and increased my triglycerides as well. I started on the lipid supp stack I’ve used many times right after that July blood test, 2400mg of legit red yeast rice ED, 1000mg of niacin, the flushing kind, 20mg of policansol ed and 100mg of coq10, and even with me not fasting for this weeks test my triglycerides and LDL dropped by 50 points. And a modest 5 point bump for my HDL. Raising HDL is alot harder than lowering the bad stuff. Cardio is one of the best things for that. And my ratio is back down into the ideal range. So those supplements worked well as they have in the past.
And last is my hematocrit, hemoglobin and RBCs. I’m sure I was a bit dehydrated for the 7/31 test since it was first thing in the morning. But I dropped my test dose from 150mg ew to 125mg, and I got a lot more consistent with my fasted cardio. Prior to this I was averaging about 3 days a week and increased to 6 days without fail and my HCT dropped from 52 to 48, and hemoglobin and RBC decreased as well. So if you’re dealing with high HCT, start doing cardio as close to daily as possible. Good for your heart too. Drink lots of water. If that’s not enough then lower doses and look into some of the supplements that are said to help with this.
All in all I’m pretty stoked with how everything looks, except my liver. I’ll have to start on some supplements for that and maybe test again after I’ve had a day or two off from the gym.
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Is this off a 400iu kit or a 100iu kit?
itszoot89This one was the 400iu kit. For more data , I’ll be testing on this same exact batch at the same iu as iron so we can compare and contrast them together to get closer to a better understanding of how igf-1 works and differs from person to person.
Gotcha. Im more interested in seeing the cinna labs. Thats my favorite gh.
He never posted the labs from the cinnatropin but he send me a message with the results. on 6ius of them he was significantly lower than he was on all the generics he ran. Somewhere around 160mg/ml. Whereas on 5-6ius of a couple brands of generics he was around 240-270. So not great results.
Bro ur lowkey the biggest guy on this site lol
Great write up. Glad to see UGL GH is performing well for you. Over the last year alone I’ve noticed purity test increase on jano labs for GH. Also wonderful to see someone speak highly of a source on eroids.
Gotta give you props, Iron … takes balls to eat your words in public, and you did it. RESPECT for that.
But damn, you were preaching pharma like gospel, and GT just smacked you with higher IGF than Omnitrope. Proof right there that pin-and-test > theory and “paper knowledge.”
Truth is, unless it’s legit Serostim or maybe Nordi, pharma ain’t wearing some magic halo. Top-tier generics stand toe-to-toe, and half the time the only real difference is the price tag.
Lesson learned? Bloods don’t lie, dogma does. But you’re good, And hey .. silver lining, now you can save a fat stack and still get the same results.
I think lesson learned is bloods do lie, or atleast aren’t a reliable indicator of GH quality and there’s no standard for IGF-1 levels from person to person. That was the theory I was trying to either prove, or disprove. Some people are getting as low as 15ng/ml per 1 iu, and some people like me get over 100ng/ml per 1u.
So we’re still not fully understanding all anabolic mechanisms of GH. Maybe folks with low serum IGF-1 have really high local IGF-1, which we can’t test for. EMD wrote in the literature for serostim that not all of its anabolic effects are mediated through IGF-1. But didn’t explain what those other anabolic pathways are. But obviously it goes beyond IGF-1 when you see someone like Chase irons on 18iu Ed of serostim with 200 IGF-1 levels but absolutely mutate in 3 months. I’m gonna keep digging. But ya I’ll definitely be doing a run on these. The problem with quality GH that’s really cheap is it’s to easy to run a shitload of it.
I actually already told irongame427 that it is a pharmagrade, because it is produced by former GENSCI employees (Jintropin)
A member tested goldtrope 10iu in this US lab, he attached the file in his review,99% of purity, you can also test it in any US labs
https://www.mzbiolabs.com/
Exactly. Fancy words and real world results are 2 diff things. All that reading off Google tryna sound like a guru. But probably can't hit 315 once. We've seen it time and time again. And i bet we see it again. Let me go hop on the bench and warn up with this 295 real quick. Lol
It's nice to see people stand by their word these days. It doesn't seem to happen as often as it should.
I'm one of those who consistently has low igf #s on every single test. My baseline was at the bottom of the spectrum to begin with. I've never even broken out of the reference range in even 10 IU when I see others posting results from the exact same batches that have much more impressive test results. I have a new test result to post and I'm not looking forward to the typical, something's clearly wrong with your stuff, posts. I actually have a couple thousand iu of goldtrope sitting in the fridge waiting for my current stuff to run out in a few days. Im def looking forward to it with these results.
I'm a man of my word, I've always kept my word in life, it means a lot to me, and irongame427 did the same.
This guy chase is quite famous and has made great changes in a short time, he uses 18iu of serostim a day and his ifg is around 200, you can check it out here or on his youtube channel
https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/18-iu-a-day-...
He's taking 18 i.u.s all at once before bed, but I thought the liver can only absorb 5 i.u. at a time?
I've been following him for awhile. In a world where you basically need to doubt every fitness influencers natty status it's nice to see a guy that's completely open about his ped use.
I'll be going numbers for your stuff when I get my next mid cycle blood work in about 3-4 weeks. I may never have impressive igf numbers. But I do get many of the positive side effects like increased recovery rate, better sleep and faster growing hair and nails. Faster muscle recovery on its own would be enough if a reason to use gh IMO.
itszoot89Yeah I’ve actually been watching a lot of his YouTube videos. There needs to be a disclaimer as a solution to this issue for sources on HgH products. Maybe look into that ?
itszoot89Big props for dropping receipts, brother—super clutch. Very nice results by the way!! I’m about to feed the algo more data: old batch, new batch, pharma, and a second source(possibly a third source!) all getting tested back-to-back. Running 5-6 IU/day IM split, AM fasted + pre-workout labs, diet/training/sleep on lockdown so it’s apples to apples. Total of 4-5 test results within the coming weeks, 2nd draw was Tuesday, results dropping as soon as its posted!
I’ll post the side-by-side lab cards with quick notes so the boys can sanity-check against your pulls. Liver/lipids/HCT tips noted—cardio and the stack are in the mix. Stay tuned—numbers incoming!
Respect to @keytech for putting his name on the line and turning this into a legit data set. Makes it easy to compare variables across users. Different bodies, different reads—but now we can see it. Solid dude, deserves a ton of credit for making this happen.
Very serious and reliable guy, regardless of the test result, we discussed how currently many pro and non-pro heavyweights, who use very high doses of GH, have serum IGF-1 values around 200, despite this they manage to put on several pounds of muscle in 3-6 months.
The most logical explanation is that most of the IGF produced by the liver has bound to the muscle receptors and the remainder is still circulating in the blood.
I was told by some that putting the GH in the freezer ruins it. I put some of my goldtrope in the freezer for a week, took it out and put in fridge because I was worried it would be ruined in the freezer. I also listen to a pod cast with owner of janoshik and he basically said good GH is very durable and would last several years in fridge. All that said, I’ve been using my previously frozen GH and it’s been working great for me. Fragility is overrated by those back in the day selling bunk GH. They wanted to blame the user for why it wasn’t working and found all kinds of excuses and everyone fell for it. Only thing he mentioned that does ruin GH, is extreme heat with prolonged direct sunlight exposure. Am I on the right track with what I’ve learned from the owner of janoshik?
Yes i also understood the same things from his videos, but it must be said that the powder form, is very resistant to temperatures and movements, but when it is already reconstituted, therefore in aqueous form, it is much more delicate.
As for TRT, 25 mg of TP every other day brings me to a value of just over 1200 ng, that said after 1 year of TRT the hematocrit went from 46 to 53, because I wasn't doing cardio, so I wanted to stop it and I must say that in the two and a half months since I stopped it I don't feel down, I think it's back to my standard of 450 ng, as soon as I lower the hematocrit I would like to experiment instead of TRT, injecting testosterone at higher doses short ester only for 3 weeks on and 4 weeks off, thinking that the hematocrit will not be affected much and I will get greater physical and mental benefits compared to long TRTs
When I stopped taking TRT, I felt pain in my back for a few days, on the side where the adrenal glands are. This has always been a good sign for me, it indicates that the body is restarting its endogenous production.
Hell yes nothing like a little friendly cooperation.
It's good that the product is real, I honestly thought it was fake too. I'm a little confused. Is it possible that not all the vials contained the hormone? Ultimately, if you're dealing with 400 units kit, just do an IGF-1 test every now and then and the mystery will be solved.
Anything is possible with non pharm grade products, and when dealing with the sneaky Chinese who make all the GH. But I’ve done a bunch of blood tests on UGL GH over the years and never had a bad igf-1 test. You can check all my lab tests in my profile. Doubt I got lucky every single time and was using a vial with GH in it at the time I did bloods.
Wow thats amazing bro glad its working well im
Still figuring my igf issue lol idk im maybe thinking could it be the bp med losartan 20mg im taking blunting it, il do another round with diff brand but only take 5ius daily and maybe drop bp med.
There is definitely some evidence that ARBs can lower IGF-1 levels, but the question is by how much? It’ll be interesting to see where you’re at without the losartan. You were sub 200 12ius ed. But maybe that’s not a bad thing. These blood tests detect systemic/circulating igf-1 which isn’t actually a good thing. It’s what can be responsible for growth of stuff we don’t want to grow, and can even be inhibitory to local igf-1 in the muscle. Maybe people like you with low systemic have really high local and you’re actually better off than the people like myself that always have high systemic IGF levels. Since stating on GH a decade ago my feet have gone from a size 10.5-12. Pretty sure my hands got bigger too, and maybe even my nose lol. All unwanted side effects obviously. I would just trust the results if I were you and not worry too much about IGF-1 levels.
Possibly bro as tbh my body changes say different as im leanest iv ever been without dropping much size and not had any negative sides which im more than happy about at such higher doses and my boy cant even get over 3 to 4 ius and we use the same stuff.
Next set of bloods will give me more indication on whats going on.
Blimey, those are some really good numbers on that dose. Key has always been known for producing good HGH from what I've seen over the years. It's always great to see him doing well considering the amount of shit he was taking daily at one stage years back. He's stood the test of time
Takes a man to admit when he's wrong.
Hey look at it this way bro. Now you can save Hella cash on that pharma hgh. Lol
Good stuff bro! I appreciate the post!
Good shit. Thanks for throwing this up; running the 400 kits and drawing bloods next week. I have the same issue with hdl on trt. Hanging at 33 and ldl 80. Similar to yours. Are you concerned at all with a 30? During blast bine actually raises to 40. Could be due to my e2 being higher in blasts.
It’s definitely not ideal to be below 40. Current research shows it best to be closer to 60. But at the same time if you have low non HDLc then you’re good. HDL clears non HDLc. But if you don’t have much non HDLc then it’s not as much of a problem that you don’t have higher levels of HDL. So my LDL is 71 which 30% below the upper limit of 100. My triglycerides are 83 which is way below the 150 limit. My total cholesterol is only 118 so with a 30 HDL that puts my ratio at 2.5. They say anything below 3.5 is ideal and indicates low risk for cardiovascular problems.
But if you look at my 7/31 test my ratio was 4.5 which is not good. My total was still in range, but my non HDLc was much higher. The data would say I don’t have enough HDL to take care of all that non HDLC.
So moral of the story for us with genetically low HDL is to keep non HDLC as low as possible. It’s much easier to lower and keep non HDLc low than it is to raise HDL. Best thing you can do to increase HDL is daily cardio. And the niacin I take is one of the few supps shown to raise HDL. Im hoping it’s going to raise it a bit more over time. My dads was always in the 40s and he finally managed to raise it to like 60 after staying very consistent with higher intensity cardio for a long time.
very good, I hope you can measure IGF-1 too
Curious to see yours
Holy balls. Was this the 400 kit or on of the 100
Don't think it matters brotha it's the same supplier key is getting it from both kits are g2g just ran outta mine a few weeks ago :( using another source bc I can't wait 2 weeks for shipping
400iu.
This is crazy I actually saw people pull bad numbers which stops me from getting I was going to
Right. My conclusion after this is i don’t know that there are “bad numbers”. This seems to be much more complex than we originally thought. The other side of this experiment is the guy who had what I would have considered low igf on these is about to do a run on pharm grade GH at the same dose. he was at like 176 on 5ius. If his igf-1 levels are the same or close to it on pharm grade we can reasonably conclude that there’s no real standard for igf-1 elevation on GH. Everyone is going to be wildly different, and it doesnt mean it’s not working I youe igf-1 levels aren’t way high.
I follow several guys on X that have been using GH for several years. Pharma and underground. They all say igf-1 is unreliable in determining if the GH is legit or not.
It’s 1 of the few ways to determine legit GH of not. For me I know 4ius of pharm grade or quality generic GH will put me over 400. Every single time. I don’t think I’ve ever been below 425. So if I was on some new GH and wasn’t anywhere close to that I could conclude it’s either underdosed, or bunk. But if you’ve never ran GH before and your first test is lower than that you can’t say one way or another if it’s bad GH, or that’s just your bodies response to it and it’s great GH. If you have questions about your IGf-1 levels it’s best to do a short pharm grade run and pull igf-1. Then you know Forsure you got left GH and can fully trust the results of the blood test.
Makes sense! Thanks for the recommendation
Hopefully this isn't a dumb question, but if a guy were to try hgh, is it the same as test where it shuts you down and you're kinda stuck on it? Or can you use GH for a bit to achieve a specific goal and then come off and natural production re-starts?
It’s similar and different. It definitely shuts you down like test, but it seems to always bounce back and very quirky. Like as soon as it’s worked its way out of your system after a few days. So you can spend years on GH and stop and your natural GH will restart almost immediately. My natural IGF-1 is nearly 3x higher now than it was in my mid 20s when I first checked it. And I spent years on GH. Whereas there’s no doubt my natural test is significantly lower now than it was before I first started running gear. Not to mention it takes months to recover natural test after coming off. But to answer your question you could do a year long run or whatever and stop and fully recover your natural GH production immediately..
However, there’s really no reason to ever stop it. A trt level dose of test. Plus the replacement level dose of GH after 40 is what everyone should be running. So like 1.5-2ius ED. The reason we don’t age that much between 20-40 is because our bodies are still producing a decent amount of GH. And the reason things go down hill so rapidly after 40 is because ours bodies largely stop producing if after that. GH is the foundation of youth great for skin, repairing injuries, sleep, muscle recovery, immune system and a ton of other things.
That was going to be my follow up question, "what is a therapeutic dose of gh?" Which at 1.5-2 iu would be cost effective. 4-5 seems like a big cash commitment.
I just turned 40, and have DEFINITELY noticed the acceleration of age (wrinkles, hair loss, loose skin, much harder to lose weight/maintain weight,) so I guess my short term goals would be to hopefully get some stubborn body fat off and then just therapeutic from there.
Testosterone alone is great, but all the other components of aging aside from sex drive and muscle loss continue to mount. Thankyou very much as always irongame.
GH would definitely help with all of those things. You could do some higher dosed runs like 4ius ed to hit those goals then back off to a HRT dose after. It’s really not that expensive, especially with this goldtrope I’m running now. It’s .62 cents an IU so under $2.50 a day to run 4ius. You should have seen it 6-10 years ago. Generics were anywhere from 2-3 bucks an iu, and very hit or miss. No jano or other labs testing purity. But that was still cheap compared to pharm grade at 5 bucks an Iu or more. We’re blessed today to have dirt cheap quality GH.
I remember in the 90s and 2000s, there were few professionals in the sector compared to today, the IFBB pros bought 36iu GH pens from the SRC of the time at $300-400 each, all the top ten use 1 pen a day, with exorbitant annual costs, there were no doses of steroids or GH, but do everything you can afford to be better than the others, do blood tests often and if they are good continue like this
Yeeeeah dude I just looked at the price and I'm fucking blown away at how cheap it is. Esp for a US source. @keytech just got a new customer in me.
It’s not like test. You can run GH for long periods of time, stop using it and your natural production fires back up within days or weeks.
Thanks man.
I’m on Reta, Test, GH 5-6iu daily and 5mg GHK-Cu. I’m 45. Leanest I’ve been in 20 years. Skin and hair is the best it’s been in several years. Less grey hair on head and all the light/grey hair in eyebrows are gone. All dark eyebrow hair.