+ 1 Turning women into men and men into women
Feminizing Boys as We Masculinize Girls
Should we try to make our sons like what our daughters used to be?
One of the things I remember from my graduate school experience was learning about “Occam’s razor.” Basically, what I recall is that it meant that when competing theories arise, it is best to use the one that makes the fewest assumptions, i.e., the simplest one.
If ever there were a place where there are all kinds of competing theories and explanations today, it’s the study of gender. And while academics (and I have
One of the things I remember from my graduate school experience was learning about “Occam’s razor.” Basically, what I recall is that it meant that when competing theories arise, it is best to use the one that makes the fewest assumptions, i.e., the simplest one.
If ever there were a place where there are all kinds of competing theories and explanations today, it’s the study of gender. And while academics (and I have my credentials here, with a Ph.D. in psychology and more than 25 years of research and college teaching) will constantly speak in careful terms, and hem and haw, at least in public, I suspect that, like me, in the privacy of their own homes, or definitely in the privacy of their own minds, things are much simpler. Even if they don’t use Occam’s razor in their public pronouncements, it’s there. Life is too complicated for it not to be.
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My title is my attempt to apply Occam's razor to trends I see all over the academic world and in the media: We are feminizing boys as we masculinize girls.
Peter Hershey/StockSnap, CCO
Source: Peter Hershey/StockSnap, CCO
I have been obsessed with gender issues for more than 40 years — “monomaniacal” about it is the way my younger brother put it a couple of decades ago. But these days the whole country seems to have joined me in my obsession. And in so much of what I read, there is a major message: Masculinity is a problem, so we have to re-educate our boys. (I use the term “re-educate” quite purposely because it does have negative connotations; for example, it has been used to describe what took place during the Cultural Revolution in China.) Whether the title of a piece is “The Stigma of Masculinity: Can Men Still Manly Without Feeling Ashamed?" or "How to Raise a Feminist Son" or "Re-Defining Masculinity,” the message is the same: There is something inherently wrong with boys, or at least in the way they have been raised in the past (and many are still); and we have to do something about it.
What are “masculine” and “feminine” anyhow? In spite of a difficulty with a gender binary that so many people have these days, I strongly believe that there would still be general agreement on terms for each category. One frequently used measure of masculinity and femininity — and “androgyny,” which would be a relatively high score on both sides — is the Bem Sex Role Inventory (or BSRI) developed by Sandra Bem more than 40 years ago (Bem, 1974). Here are just a few items from that 60-item self-administered instrument, where individuals put a number from 1 ("never or almost never true (of me)” to 7 (“always or almost always true (of me).” Among the characteristics associated with masculinity are self-reliant, defends own beliefs, aggressive, acts as a leader. Among characteristics on the feminine side are these: yielding, helpful, sensitive to the needs of others, and gentle.
Another self-scoring test measuring masculinity and femininity (though referred to as “instrumentality” and “expressivity”) is the Personal Attributes Questionnaire (or PAQ), developed by Janet T. Spence, Robert Helmreich, Joy Stapp in 1975. Among the masculine characteristics on that 24-item scale are independent, self-confident, and competitive; among the feminine characteristics are emotional, very aware of the feelings of others, helpful to others.
There is no question that today parents are being urged to encourage their sons to be sensitive to the needs of others, emotional, and helpful; and not to be aggressive. At the same time, they are encouraging their daughters to defend their beliefs, take leadership roles, and be self-reliant and competitive.
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The problem for boys and men whose masculinity is being subject to attack is that many studies have shown that both women and men who scored higher on the masculinity (than the femininity) scale were more likely to have higher self-esteem (which often correlates with success). The original thinking by Bem and others was that the most highly successful people would be androgynous – defined as scoring above the median on both masculinity and femininity; so it was surprising to many that this was often not the case, but rather that scoring higher on masculinity was frequently the best predictor of success.
I am not saying that extremes of masculinity, which could include violence, are acceptable. But given the association of masculine traits with self-esteem and success, something which our society has now at least tacitly recognized for our daughters, and given the many ways in which boys and young men are lagging behind girls and young women in their education as well as many other ways, it seems unwise to feminize our sons while we encourage independence, self-confidence, and competitiveness in our daughters.
Finally, if evolutionary psychology means anything at all — and there is much evidence that it does — will our independent, strong, and confident daughters ultimately want men who don’t share these traits?
We shall see. Sweden is experimenting with trying to make its pre-schools as gender-neutral as possible, but this necessarily means a reversal of the usual sex roles. The headline of a front page story in the New York Times several days ago reads “In Sweden’s Preschools, Boys Learn to Dance and Girls Learn to Yell.” Is this the wave of the future? If so, decades of research suggest that it is a very uncertain one.
References
Bem, S. L. (1974). The measurement of psychological androgyny. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 42(2), 155-162.
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I was in a daze last night. Sl33p meds and I don’t remember posting this..
I read this while sitting at a cheer leading competition for my daughter. 7 local schools , every single 6-8 year old girl wanted to be a beautiful girl! &
Yes they are all GIRLS!!! This is part of my belief of the internet making things great and destroying things at same
Time. The idea of staying with in one’s
Community (with one’s people) and being where we should / & choose to be. It’s the same as the immigrants that come to America and want to bring traditions they are leaving? I am not completely blind to the shit show we have happening worldwide, but all we can do is educate , empower those we will leave the world to! My child understands not every house hold
Is the same & we don’t worry about that.
Those little girls don’t know what life is yet and the emulate what solely what their mothers teach them, it will be harder to parent when a smart phone is shoving the ideal female body on tik tok aimed at such 7 year olds.
I watched a video back twelve years ago, a 12 year old broke up with her boyfriend; she set up the camera out back in the woods and hanged Her self, you see after 35mins in the video the mother calling her name to come inside for dinner.
I’m a diagnosed ASPD and granted I don’t have much empathy but something like this absolutely kills me, this was right around the time FaceBook was @ its height of popularity..
This girl was average, just a pretty young girl waiting her turn to become a young women, to have it snatched because media could influence the young mind.
Family day for you and your daughter sounds like something of a good time away from the daily gym grind (: peace
Good point by you and triggerman
See internet we can kind of control but when they are allowed to teach stuff in schools that isnt even school work then it makes it harder for us parents. Triggerman is right, we can only control what is in our homes and its up to us to bring our children up the way that is moral and right
Yes , thats what I was trying to explain. Household & the community; also time of “our” lives we are sharing. This parenting thing is truly the hardest thing I have ever experienced. Fast & ever changing. I want my child to understand electronics and “real” life. @ChuckThaDuck22 I am 100% on board and aware of the points you make, I/ we do not hide things, sugar coat ect, my kid is the reason I pushed myself to change years ago. she has no memories of her soft, fat drunk dad. That was a change I could make. Some round about way I figured the life style we create is only fueling or dousing the fire of our lives.
My 3 older kids have forgiven me for my old lifestyle and not being there like i should have but i got sober before my 6yr old was born and i think she is why i stay sober now God gave me one more chance to try it right and this girl dont know the old me and never will
I feel like I had been given a shit load of chances and pissed all away. was a super hard feeling when I held my child, knowing I did not get any "do overs" anymore. my drinking flourished after her birth, my parents were sick & dieing. I had a complete bad outlook. like everything was out to get e and out of my control. that was when I realized "no one was coming" and I was the only mother fucking steering the ship, my ship !!!! fucking me!!!!!!! I was only fucking me! Now I think I have a truly set the cruise control. as for the next years I am working on being super dad!
I genuinely feel your comment from the heart strings, a couple of my guys have had fatherhood save and re track.
70% though revert back to old habits and become lucky that the mom has found a decent man to become a replacement. I do not get along with my father I do not talk to him regularly, some of the damage is too deep and it’s done is done
My supervisor is my defacto father and I love him with everything I have, crazy as his children don’t really fuck with him.
Im getting real personal on this forum but the juice is a small part of this yeah?
Ill tell you what though. Probably off topic but you know how many of my boys got custody of their kids because the mother doesn't want the responsibility and being tied down? Back in the day it was the reverse, the mom always had custody and the dads had no problem letting the mother have full custody. About 3 of my close friends have their kids, daughters too. Think the mom would want to raise the girl and give the dad the boys. I split with my sons mom and she lost custody and he was thrown in a home. Me and my current wife got him out and he came to live with me because his mom was ok leaving him there with strangers in a wierd home.
17 years old, one detention,
Two suspensions and got caught drinking four loko I was shipped away.
Two years later
Little sis’s and her friends are drinking away,
My mom
Buying her and the friends alcohol, no big fucking deal it was me Tommy the one causing the problems, so I stayed away, couldn’t get caught drinking once, the double standard was real
Inpatient rehab 20is times saved my life
My sister one time inpatient rehab, dead and gone,
Dumb fucking bitch goes and pulls the stunt couldn’t even waited till I come
Home to show her I could be a good big brother, she’s why I came back to New York. We were gonna buy our grandparent out and pay the taxes since the house is paid off
No kid will ever be treated the way I was grown up , they’ll be expansive, open minded and somewhat free to explore , I’m jargonning around
With my
Letters here lat at night
I am sorry to hear this @ChuckThaDuck22. I fell asleep and just saw this morning. I am always around homie - if you want to chat! That’s some serious mind fucking man. There’s no other way to put it.
Never feel bad, just use my experience as a deterrent for anyone else who’s reading; a lot of dudes have been through ALOt more than I have
Yes , I understand that. You have the correct outlook in my opinion. Only forward brother.
I have a few friends in same situation. It’s a different world and we have seen it change many ways. Glad to have contact with all you fellas
Good man! Keep it up. Our kids deserve it. I teach my daughter everything. She is going to grow up not "needing" a man.
yes sir... you as well!!! im going for the same thing brother. Doing my best to set the bar high.
Do a better job than most of the dead beat dads I’ve come across in these institutions, I’m glad I’m self sterilized and I’d know by this point if I wanted a child or not
I’d be doing the world a disservice right now if I said otherwise
Who cares lol. Theres someone out there thats probably needed to read this. Let things happen as they happen
Archie Bunker