+ 1 PIP What's normal? Is it supposed to hurt this much?
Sorry, first post so I'm not sure if this is the correct place.
Anyways, I am on TRT, I started going the UGL route to save money. Great decision.
My first source, I used 10ml vial of 250mg/ml Test Cyp for like $20. Absolutely painless and goes in like butter.
For reasons I will not go into, I was unable to inject for a little over a year. Then I started to get back into it.
Do to various reasons, I switched to a different source, one of the top 10's off this site thinking it must be good since it's top 10 status. Except this time I decided to go with Test E. It's also dosed higher at 300mg/ml in a 20ml vial. Meaning I would have to inject less per syringe so thats a plus.
ANYWAYS, to get on topic;
I am experiencing heavy PIP and Inflammation/Swollenness from this 300mg Test E versus the 250mg Test Cyp I was using. But My question is how much PIP is cause for concern or is this just normal shit and I was blessed with painless injections from the previous Cyp?
I've also asked around (quick reddit searches) and it is said that E causes more PIP than Cyp. I also understand it is dosed slightly higher, it being more concentrated, would lead to more PIP, however, THIS much for a 50mg difference? Also maybe virgin muscle might have something to do with it? Considering I haven't injected in over a year.
THE PAIN:
I inject in Delts. 1st day is fine, 2nd day the pain starts; painful movements, mainly lateral lifting (like deltoid side laterals). The muscle also gets really swollen, like there is a a visible difference between my 2 shoulders. By the time the 2nd injection for the same shoulder comes around (I rotate each delt, injecting E3D), the pain/swoleness/inflammation is gone/low enough for the next pin.
This didn't use to happen with the other source. Is it the Test E, higher concentration, virgin muscle, or is this all normal?
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Pip is different for everyone. Test E definitely has some pip for most people. I’ve experienced pip from E at 300+ mg. Cyp I’ve never had pip from. I’ve had some crash bad before, reheated it and still zero pip. I would change esters if I were you.
Thanks bro, switching next source
You should injecta one muscle group per week
Try too rotate delts legs and glutes
Used to have unbearable pip and had to try about 6 different brands of test before finding one that didn’t cause pip that wouldn’t allow me to sleep, walk, properly, let alone train! Have you looked at carrier oils and tried differing brands to see if this helps?
Warming oils, speed of injection, placement, massaging after or not, ibuprofen etc all seemed pretty inconsequential for me, it was all about the brand.
Hope you find a solution that works for you. Bad pip is no joke!
Pin size? Warmed? Hot pad?
If this is low volume injections for TRT purposes you should really only be injecting the ventromedial glutes:
Less blood vessels & nerves, handles larger oil volumes, discreet location, and if there's PIP it's unlikely to influence workouts/movement. Deltoids I've never bothered with since glutes can take up to 3mL oil and I've never even gone that high.
+1 that was the biggest message that went right over my head. TRT is for ventroglutes all day long. I’m glad you pointed that out.
I have also been having issues with Test E. Mine are not in 20mL vials, but from a top source on this board. To my knowledge that source doesn't sell 20mLs. My buddy also reported having an issue with his Test E from an even different source from whom I used (different website/brand and concentration).
I have used TE for 20+ years of TRT and blasting. I have NEVER had a problem taking it until recently. My source said his was over dosed but even at 350mg, it shouldn't hurt that much. I think it's prob 315mgish/mL. I have taken 250mg with zero PIP in delts, all over legs and glutes.
I personally think there is something going on in the UGL scene with bunk/dirty TE that just freaking hurts more. That or someone decided to change a formula that worked into something that doesn't. When I did 1ml into my quads 12 days ago I had a massive, bigger than a racquetball bump at the injection site for a week. I still have a bump there. As much as I like not dealing with MDs and paying for RX grade, I think this has made me want to jump ship from the UGL stuff. One nasty infection and you could lose many months or even years of hard training depending on what happens.
Yea, You, Press1, and a few others have pushed my decision to go to a diff source altogether and switch back to Cyp.
Thanks guys.
Don’t pin the same muscle less than 7 days… and inject it slower…. I personally use test 450 and it’s beautiful…. Idk…but this…( ….might be half your problem
It's hard to say what is the issue. I say that because like mentioned it could be the solvents or even the raw powder used to make the test e. A few years back there was severe pip issues from certain brands of test e. Usually it can give a good bite around 300 mg / ml. Folks mistake this ester for always being smooth but depending on how its manufactured it can be rough, especially at 300 mg/ ml or higher. Also with higher dose comes more solvents which makes it more irritating.
Probably the ethyl oleate you are feeling and sensitive to. Some feel it some dont.
Is thats what's in it?
Test300 in 20ml bottle shrinks the source pool lol
Damn. Using EO in Test E 300 is overkill if that's the case.
300 is the upper limit I think before needing to use ethyl oleate. Pretty sure it’s going to be in the recipe so that if its a little overdosed it won’t crash constantly.
Hard to get test E to crash even at higher mg per ml. Now it's a total different story for test C at 275mg/ ml and up
Absolutely because strangely enough, cyp, having roughly the same half life as enanthate, is chemically structured like a short ester. MP three times higher than enanthate. Do you want to go do karate in the garage with me?
Yeah true
Lol you might have Chuck Norris karate skills so I'll pass on that. Now wrestling or boxing is different
As soon as I figure out how to post memes here, my shitty jokes will land better. That was a reference to the movie “Step Brothers”. Basically a hi-five to your breakdown of cyp chemistry. You can kick my ass any time buddy! You already know I have bad shoulders!
Nah man you have a good sense of humor so no issues with me my man. You're good in my book. And the high five should go to you for your in detailed breakdown of Cyp lol.
Step brothers huh? Who was in that movie? Was that the Mark Wahlberg movie?
Right back atcha buddy! John C Reilly and Will Ferrel. Such a dumb movie lol. But they are like two grown children. YouTube “did we just become best friends?! Do you wanna go do karate in the garage with me?!”
Haha sounds silly. Will is a trip
That is a really common understanding of it, for sure. In fact I thought that for a long time. But Enanthate has the lowest melting point of all the test esters. Nearly 60% less than cypionate and almost half of the next lowest MP. Granted, some manufacturers choice to add EO may be an average climate thing or a shipping season thing but believe me when I say test E holds in solution of 400mg/ml with 15-20% BB and 500mg/ml holds in 20-25%. No ethyl oleate. Ships fine as long as the mail doesn’t sit out for long. Now drawing it up is another story. Picture trying to pull semen through an insulin pin.
Good to know. I have no personal experience as I stated so if you have real world experience then the information I have is probably outdated or wrong.
I’m not trying to spread misinformation so I’m glad to be corrected.
Good explanation man. +1
With test E you can go 400mg/ ml without EO but the amount of alcohol solvents go up. 500mg may be pushing it without EO
Good to know I’ve always read 300. I’ve never done any work with it personally so it’s all hearsay to me.
Yeah at one point long ago no one even thought about test e at 300mg/ml or higher. Pushing the boundaries man.
Given a few things there that you have mentioned such as the size of the vials, I think it is the actual gear you have bought that may be causing the PIP. Normal Test E 300 should be painless, its only when you get up to the 400mg/ml stuff people tend to experience issues. I would change Lab personally.
Kind of a dead giveaway on those 20mls. You think it’s related the recent bad press?
'Oh so now I'm bad am I???!! LMAO
Lol Kinda redundant, no? Should I have to add “bad” to @press1 ? I would just say “press” so everyone would know I was talking about the bad one. Jk buddy. The American Revolution is over. We should put our differences aside.
Stop being so bloody serious!! LMAO
I’m trying to practice acting like an adult and I just can’t get it nailed down. It’s harder than it looks!
It’s not you, it’s the lot of ya lorry driving krimpet eating tea time limeys! After I saw the movie “The Patriot”, I was mad at the British for about 3 years. Even the Irish kept moving west to get off that cloudy mud pit you guys call a nation.
(You know I’m joking lol, love ya buddy)
Shut Up Ya Soppy khant, Ya Fackin Stumble bum!! Now Liven yourself up
You Brit’s definitely have the coolest slang, gotta give you props on that! Lol
Ain’t that the truth. It seems like the coolest thing in American vernacular lately is being able to squeeze the word “literally” 20 times into a sentence that only has 15 words in it. Like, literally.
They’ve had some recent bad press? I guess I’m out of the loop these days, I’ll have to go snoop around
Is it the same source that a few years back someone sent out a sample for testing, and what was supposed to be (If I remember correctly) primobolan, but came back positive for 5 different compounds? Like the bottom of a few different beakers were mixed together and bottled up? Was even two different tren esters in it lol
I can’t stop laughing… except that is fucked. I’m so confused… should we pay MORE if it has a buffet of chemicals in it? I can just picture the review, “this src is amazing. I only paid for one primo but I also got EQ, tren ace, tren e, injectable winny, a sprinkling of injectable letrozole and what appears to be a tea made from cigarette butts and guiaicol. Thats what I call “getting more than you paid for. 10/10 value, highly recommend.” Flush your filters man. Yuck.
Bro, that’s how it went, I’m not going to name the src, but plenty of guys remember. Almost to the tee of what you listed lol. It was absolutely ridiculous. To be fair, BFG whacked him pretty hard until he straightened out his act. BFG and the mods don’t go for that kind of stuff. The vial was a smorgasbord of anabolics. Shit, if he just put what was in it on the label, there’s guys that would’ve bought it…
Just wow. What if you’re not exactly sure what’s in it so you just put on the label all possible extra compounds in small print with a question mark after it? Like
TEST E 300
(winstrol?)
(tren ace?)
Good idea? Or the best idea ever?
Seriously though, I’m grateful for the accountability here. Mods and users alike. There are boards where a simple hush bribe to the customer and a recall would do the trick. No bueno.
You said it.... accountability. No way to run from that...no sir!!
If it’s who I’m thinking, top ten US and has 20ml vials, they’ve had a string of bad reviews lately. Some related to a suspected scam clone website but then some popping up that have used the link straight from this forum. But there’s a lot of “if”s in my statement. I’m not claiming I know 100% who he used, nor am I claiming the bad reviews are justified. I’m just telling you what I see.
Ya I found those reviews. It’s odd that they have such a problem with scammers and other source don’t have anywhere near that big of an issue with them. Another thing I thought was odd was that order numbers that were from the “scammer” were close to normal order numbers. Like both are 5 digits long and starting with a 3 and some guys even claimed to be communicating with the scammers though the right email address, because it’s the same address that emails back as the source. Idk if there’s a way to spoof email addresses but it’s very suspicious or a very complex and advanced scammer that really hates this guy
You know what sucks? It IS possible to spoof an email. Hijack the whole thing. The problem is that you can’t really tell if it got spoofed or if it’s a src riding the scam train because they can pass it off as the scammer. I’m not saying that’s going on here, but it does happen.
Ya exactly what I’m thinking. Sucks to not know one way or the other, save to just stay away and he’s doing just fine without my money so, looks like things will be ok for both of us
I kinda figured who he was talking about