+ 1 Not Really Sure Where to Go From Here
Stats:
Age: 26
Weight: 219 lbs
Body Fat: 17%
Been bodybuilding since I was 18. I had no understanding of nutrition back then. I would eat whatever, drink a lot of protein shakes and mass gainers, and train hard. It wasn't till I turned 23 (2020) that I finally started working on understanding nutrition and diet and the important role it plays in bodybuilding.
First Bulk with a coach was 08/2022 - 03/2023. Started at 173 lbs / 10% BF and finished at 231 lbs / 18% BF.
First Cut with a coach was 03/2023 - 09/2023. Started at 231 lbs / 18% BF and finished at 214 lbs / 16.4% BF
Maintenance started 10/2023 (Stats above).
Half way through my bulk I went to the doctor due to varicose veins. After the doctor asked some questions I opened up and told him I'd been having a low sex drive. Getting hard wasn't a problem but just overall desire wasn't there along with no motivation to really do anything. My confidence was in the toilet and I was kind of depressed some days and couldn't explain why. I asked the doc to check my Test levels and he did which revealed my T was at 420 (was taking a testosterone support supplement at the time). He then proceeded to tell me that the range for my age is between 400-900 and that my levels were fine because I'm still in the range.....idk about you but that just sounds like bs. He then prescribes me anti-anxiety medication which did absolutely nothing for me. Jump to a week or two later I'm telling my buddy about it and he starts telling me how my levels are way too low and I need to look into TRT. So I start taking 200 mg Test Cyp per Week (.5CC every Tues and Saturday) and .5mg Anastrozole day after injection. My coach informed me this was a low therapeutic dose to start with. Results were great in terms of my mood, emotion and sleep. Felt confident when socializing again, Motivated to reach my goals, and generally happy most days. This is before seeing any progress in terms of physique. Continued taking 200mg per week til 07/2023. I had just dropped my coach to see if I could maintain this lifestyle on my own with plans to return if I needed help. This is when a buddy of mine started TRT as well so naturally we ordered our Test together to save on shipping and handling and get a better deal for ordering more. The bottles that we received were 250mg instead of 200 mg so I decided to continue my regimen and increase my dose to 250mg per week and have been doing so since then.
I'm overall happy with the muscle gains I've achieved but feel I could have done more to cut fat. I lift 2-3 hours a day 5-6 days a week and did cardio during the cut. Ill be honest I wasn't very consistent with cardio and I had 2 cheat meals a week during the bulk so I'm sure that didn't help and I've learned from my mistakes. Part of me wants to do it all over again and start a bulk next month but then the other side of me wants to start a serious cut for 2 months first so I can get as close to 10% BF as possible before going hard on another bulk. T\he Buddy I train with lifts heavy af and is bigger than me so Ive adopted his diet so I can keep up during work outs. Basically high carbs and High protein with moderate fat (3,250 cal / 50% Carbs / 35% Protein / 15% Fat).
My other buddy who told me about TRT just started a Mast P/ Tren Ace/ Test Prop Cycvle and swears by Tren for cutting but then I have my old coach and others telling me to stay away from tren and just use anavar or clen. If you've gotten this far through my post and still dont understand what I'm trying to ask well then in summary:
Should I cut again or should I rinse and repeat and start a bulk?
Should I continue my Test Cyp and add in Anavar or Clen or should I explore shorter esters and other compounds?
And while we are at it what is the deal with peptides? Ive been looking into them and they sound too good to be true. I've mainly researched BPC 157, GHRP6, and Ipamorelin.
Thanks in advance for any insight, advice, or shared experiences! Goal is to do my first Classic Physique show Summer of 2025.
| Week | Testosterone Cypionate | Anastrozole | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 - 32 | 200mg per week | 1mg per week | ||
| 32- Current | 250mg per week | 1mg per week | ||
- Bookmark
- 1
- 0
Blood Work results are in:
Testosterone: >1500 ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 39.9 pg/mL
Prolactin: 9.7 ng/mL
Estradiol: 8.6 pg/mL
Blood Panel looked good and thyroid panel looked good too. The dose I was on was absolutely too high for TRT, at least for me. After PCT and getting hpta checked I'll re-evaluate TRT. Thanks for the input from everyone!
Update: Just got the last of my blood work done. (Test and Estro Levels along with thyroid panel)
I used https://marekdiagnostics.com/collections/lab-builder (most affordable but longer wait time for results)
Should get results back in a week or 2 hopefully. Last pin was Saturday so 3 days ago. Looking in to PCT. Thinking of going with
Day 1-20 2000iu HCG EOD
Day 1-45 Nolvadex 20mg 2x Daily
Day 1-30 Clomid 50mg 2x Daily
Not sure which Ai to use if needed. Ive been using Arimidex on cycle so was thinking of switching to Aromasin. Will start PCT 2 weeks after last pin so in 10 days.
For blood work I would use merek health, I had the same issues with my insurance. You can build your own panels and they send it right to Labcorp. If you’re just looking for test/estradiol and thyroid panel should only be $40-$50. They also have high sensitivity testing https://marekdiagnostics.com/collections/lab-builder
No offense my man but you're underestimating your bodyfat % quite a bit, which is fine, most guys do.
According to my calculations, you're claiming to have gained ~33lbs of lean muscle on your 32 week 200mg test marathon, with only ~24lb of fat being gained concurrently.
That's 1 pound of pure muscle per week. If "high TRT dose" test could do that then why bother with any other androgens lol, all you'd have to do is dial in your diet and you're golden. But realistically I think a lot more of that was fat/water retention than you realize and a proper cut would be helpful for both your physique and health.
As far was where to go next: Cycle off with proper PCT and get your blood checked, see if you can restart your natural production and give your body a break for a few months, recovery is important. If your T levels are truly fucked still after PCT then run a real TRT dose of closer to 120mg/week T which puts you in range. While running "natty" t-levels dial in your diet on a cut and actually get that bodyfat down, seems to me like you have no problem gaining weight which is good, the hard part (for me too) is doing a real cut which actually removes fat while retaining as much muscle as possible. Once all those fundamentals are under your belt you can look into experimenting with new compounds, then you'll most likely be much more successful in achieving your goals.
Hope that helps.
I always like the London broil comparison when guys talk about muscle gained. London broil is pretty lean and average about a pound at the butcher shop, maybe slightly more. When someone says they’ve gained 20lbs of muscle in two months (it’s usually Dianabol, which I am a fan of) I like to think of what 20 London broils looks like at the store. They grew that much lean tissue in a couple months? No.
No offense taken at all! These stats are from a smart scale I purchased on amazon so I know the numbers are 100% accurate but it gave me a base line when I started recording my progress. A full body scan is on my list but Ive been able to get by with my smart scale so far.
I was thinking the same thing when it comes to my next steps. Cycle off and do a serious power pct to see if i can restart my test production. Hoping it does but if not ill start TRT again at a lower dose 100-120mg per week. I think most of me wanted to do a cut more than bulk because your right. Putting on size was easy but the cut i just did was challenging and I feel I cheated on it way too much. I want to give it another go and really dial in and stay true before considering a bulk again. I know my post says the goal is to do a classic physique show but my ultimate goal is to compete in open bodybuilding.
Anyways thank you for the input and putting things into perspective. Ill most likely be following your instructions moving forward.
have you had your test/estro levels checked while on 250mg? 99% likely that you are way above TRT dose and instead doing a permanent cycle which is not good for your health. No going back now since you have most likely fried your HPTA for sure by now being on so long. You get to look forward to pinning for the next 60yrs of your life so do it safely or you won't make it that far.
I think all of our HPTA's are fried
Yeah I've tried to get my bloodwork done several times this year. Apparently no one wants to do it through my medical insurance as I've been to 3 different doctors this year and they either told me no they don't do testosterone and estrogen testing or my insurance isnt going to cover it. I've finally found a place I can order the exact testing I need but it will be all out of pocket. I have my blood work done just missing test and estradiol. Will be getting that done this month.
Also I researched TRT for 3 months practically everyday before finally jabbing. I understood that once I started I risked exactly everything you just stated and some. I even discussed it with my wife as this would affect her too. We both came to the conclusion that the mental benefits alone were worth it. It wasn't till later that I decided I wanted to compete in bodybuilding.
I will be honest though, the way you put it does bother me in the sense that I don't even like pinning twice week. So now truly grasping that ill most likely have to do it for the rest my life is saddening. Thanks for the feedback.
If you have Quest near you and this is in your state use this. Cheapest 3rd party bloods I have seen
https://www.jasonhealth.com/
You can get your own test done. 75 bucks.
$75!?!?! From where? The site I found is asking $158 before tax and fees for Testosterone, Thyroid, and Estradiol Panel. https://www.discountedlabs.com/testosterone-thyroid-and-estradiol-panel
https://www.eroids.com/forums/general/general-talk/blood-testing-resourc...
Makwa ftw
Quest. That’s just the test levels though. I would imagine regular panels would be covered by your insurance.
They are covered once a year and Test / estradiol is not covered unless its with cause. I tried using quest diagnostics but when I contacted to set up an appointment they instructed me to see my primary care doctor who would then order the labs. Is this not correct?
Go online and create an account. You can purchase whichever test you want. I just purchased a testosterone test today. I do my own then let the doctor do his so he doesn't get worked up.
There is also the issue of being able to have kids, if that was in your future. Almost next to impossible with a fried HPTA and on TRT.
That’s one thing I’m needing to have addressed at my next visit to doc. We’ve been trying to get pregnant for a while… between my TRT and wife’s chemotherapy from brain tumor three years ago, we are perplexed. Sperm count was good in 2017 though… sucks getting older.
That is also what I found in my research as well. My wife I would like to have kids one day but its way at the bottom of our priorities. I have heard about using HCG and some peptides to help the body start producing testosterone again. What I read said that the men taking those were able to have kids. Of course its not guaranteed but I mean if Mr.Olympia can have a baby after everything hes done and taken....
So we have one… when I started TRT protocol, it was after highschool as I had an underwhelming production of hormone. Doctor had me on HCG and I did that for 3-4 years and one day said screw it. I started AAS when I was 22 but I already had issues and figured why not. Blood work was always good, outside of the constant which was low t. Everything else functioned well, but I am sure I am the extreme minority. Fast forward to 26-27 I let myself go a little, got married l, and life did its thing. I started going to an endo who put me on Clomid daily. I actually had a buddy who was prescribed the same by his on a different city. If there is a game of cahoots, then so be it. We got pregnant and doc said why don’t we start the other route and started compounded test cream. I could never find a rythym with that outside of applying it to my scrotum which put my numbers in the 1400s and the endo was perplexed as that basically went against every damn thing you read anywhere. When I applied to large muscle groups test hardly budged. Now I’m on sub q 100mg a week. I feel great, but should probably go get my sperm count numbers tested again. Granted I’m 34, but a run of the mill male at my age should be fairly fertile. We shall see!
Rant over. Take this all into consideration. Life is hard, being on steroids is harder. It just makes life more fun.
Love this! Thanks for sharing!
That is a very rare exception if it does happen and takes a whole lot more than just some HCG and peps to even have a snowballs chance in hell for it to work.
That's understandable. With how much they make as professionals I'm sure he paid quite a bit to be able to have that baby and your right it probably took a long time.
Focus on recovering and taking a break from gear for a while. That’s a long time to be on AAS.
So to get this correct, you did a non stop 13month cycle and without any chat on full blood scans youre getting a go ahead to start another cycle?
13months straight correct?
Yeah I know that sounds bad but it was my understanding at the time that TRT was not something you start and then stop. I guess I'm not using the term "cycle" correctly in my post but yes, that is correct.
Bloodwork without using insurance is key. If its self prescribed you must check on your own. Quest or privatemdlabs is under 100.
Be safe! At least youre doing it and asking regardless of age.
Pancake syrup for blood
It can get that way unfortunatly. Red cross donation too.
In my research I also discovered how TRT thickens the blood so I've donated double red blood cells every 3-6 months since starting.
He's on "TRT"
Bulk with coach and cut with coach was 13 months. Its a steroid site. Bulker cutter...? Had to ask
Now in my opinion sir 200mg is a bit over "Trt" for most folks. So I get that.
Yea but it also says 32 weeks at 200mg "trt".
@Wildling you are correct. Sounds like he tried to bulk and cut while cruising. That's what it reads to me.
Maybe I can't read well lol... I thought it sounded like he was on a permanent cruise.
Use at least as possible for as long as possible. Your still young and can make gains on a little. Training 2-3hrs a day 5-6 days a week your not training hard enough. Maybe training with higher intensity with more rest days you'll make better gains. If your training with maximal effort, you should be smoked after a hr and not able to train everyday. I like 2 days on, 1 day off training schedule, back/rear delts, chest/biceps, shoulders/triceps, legs..... Simple bro. I've trained in this fashion and it works for me and others I've trained. Don't over complicate things bro, the basics always works and this goes for training, diet , and steroid regiment.
If you are certain about going down this road
You don't need tren, there's many other compounds you will be just fine with. If I were a newbie again, and was trying to put on mass a simple cycle with testosterone 400-500mg with deca or EQ 200-400mg weekly for 10 weeks would be my choices. If I wanted to cut, I would use test prop 100mg e.o.d. and injectable winstrol depot 50mg e.o.d. 10 weeks
You can incorporate a a.i. if needed
.5mg 2x week anastrozol
If your training every workout with 100% everytime, and eating your meals every day like you should this is plenty of juice to get it done
Do you really like winstrol IM much more than oral? Also with EQ, is 10 weeks sufficient? Those are two I haven't touched myself....
I have to agree with below comment about longer durations of running gear with certain compounds isn't always a must. There are guys that have this notion that everyone reacts the same which isn't necessarily the case. To say that running Primo at 10 weeks is pointless is something I've always disagreed with. I don't use EQ but same applies to it.
The notion of needing to use a compound for longer duration because its a long or slow ester is erroneous. People mostly say this about EQ and primo but with no real evident reason. EQ has a half life for about 3 weeks, and takes around 6 weeks to notice effects. It has immediate anabolic action but shines when it's built up in the system, that being said if you discontinued EQ at 10 weeks, you'll still be reaping benefits up until the 16th week. Deca too is very long action too same rules applies.Guys in the 90's pros ran shorter cycles than today's guys and kept them to around 12 weeks and would get build amazing physiques in this period of time. 10 weeks for a new user is best in my opinion, he's still young and the shorter duration your shut down the easier it is to come back
Winstrol injectable I like because it's not as harsh on the stomach and it releases a little slower than oral position. I would not say i like it much better, oral winstrol works really well.
Have you ever noticed about 2 weeks after You've finished a cycle you look your best????
The winstrol depot PIP isn’t insane for you?? It’s the only compound that I’ve had to stop because of the PIP. Honestly I’ve actually never really had PIp from anything other then my first few injections ever. But that winny is like a shotgun blast to my ass cheek
Nah no pip. It doesn't bother me. Water based products some people have pip. I have not had any bad experiences
I’ve never gotten any from any other compound, DHB, tne, prop all were fine, but this winny is brutal on me. Maybe it’s this one sources stuff, because I’ve only tried that one kind. In the future if I’m gunna use it, I’ll just have to warm it up, push slow, use a heating pad and all the other little tricks and maybe it won’t be so bad
If you are ever interested I'll help steer you where I procure mine. Like deeman said micronized is easier to tolerate. I've used both veterinary products which are harsher both test suspension and winstrol and they still weren't trouble with me but the micronized stuff they have now is easier.
Thanks man, I’m not a huge fan of the stuff anyways so I’m not to worried about it at the moment but I’ll keep you in mind if I ever am interested
I don't use winny but I think alot of times micronization helps ease pip a little bit. Sometimes the crystallization of winny may be bad.
I’d never heard of that before but it makes sense
Tone would know more about that than I would. That's a big issue with hormones suspended in water. It's not like hormone is dissolved but the smaller the crystalline hormone the better for muscle.
Think of the hormone as sugar crystals vs flour. The finer parcels are a little less irritating
Well put