posted Wed, 11/22/2023 - 03:15
5107
+ 2 With consent, here are the results of long term crazy cycles
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A close friend of mine has shared with me his testing results and asked if I can make a post discussing some of his options. A little background story, he’s 37 did some physique shows and now pushed it too far to the point he has Cardiac issues. Here’s an example of a common prolonged cut cycle:
750 Sust
600 Tren e
100mg Anavar
150mg Winstrol
200 mcg t3
Clen 160mcg
For 6 months
Despite my warnings, he finds himself in this situation and is requesting what his options are. I highly opposed his methods but here we are and now I’m trying to find solutions to help him and I’m not even convinced he believes he’s on the verge of a heart attack. My questions are is this reversible ? Will he be able to at least go on trt? Thank you I’m advance.
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I've been putting quite a bit of research time into all this over the past few weeks Simon as what with the continuing number of steroid user deaths particularly related to Heart attacks etc, its beginning to concern me as its the one area we can't really monitor in bloodwork. I also know someone else who is having LVE and ejection fraction problems (who will remain nameless) so I've been trying to find out if they are indeed reversible and possible to improve. There is definitely some positive news in these areas if your friend is willing to listen and take advice on board. It seems that general consensus is that Ejection Fraction can be improved upon if the person is willing to commit to do moderate exercise each week, going for a run or brisk walk 3 to 5 times per week for at least 20 to 40 mins at moderate pace will improve it. If the person can do HIT level training then that works even better. I am not saying that your friend can totally reverse it, but it looks as if he may be able to get back into normal range again being 45% to 70% blood being pumped out of the heart, from his current 35% level. He must commit to being totally off cycle and fat burners though and stay on TRT for at least a year to have any chance of helping himself. My friend after being diagnosed with left ventricular enlargement - has seen a significant decrease in size after being on TRT for some time and staying well away from cycling.
There’s no hope for this guy. He ended up going on a “small” cycle of test+Deca and adrol but ensures me he’ll be fine because he quit smoking. He had a talk with his father and said, he will never stop but just cut doses but will at least stay away from fat burners which is what I think did him in.
WOW
Got Heart Disease/Failure so decides to run Deca and Anadrol.
So… after reading this, you said example of a common prolonged cycle. Am I safe to assume this is the type of gear he would “commonly” utilize while on? That’s crazy he has made it this long if that’s the case.
Has no medic suggested Ablation to your friend? On face value he looks like a prime candidate for it…..
Polypharmacy is what keeps guys alive and it’s not prevalent enough. An ARB and statin should be mandatory for anyone pushing over 1.5-2g a week. Diet and supplements simply aren’t enough to counteract the effects from heavier dosages.
Not that I’m being the devils advocate, but how does he look? Absolute beast or all that wasn’t worth it in vain?
He never had the genetics for competing and should look even bigger for all the amount of gear he was using but he looked pretty awesome at times. 225 lbs sub 10% at 6’. I know there are guys in here who achieved the Same while using much less, maybe some peptides of sorts.
jesus, this is terrible. That is a super harsh cycle. I doubt most of that is reversible naturally. I would look in to things that are beneficial to healing and heart health, peptides mostly.
Hope for the best for him
Thanks Yoke,
He’s a Live by the sword die by the sword type of guy.
I can understand that but mitigation is always a good idea
Afuera!
Did his employer let him go after these findings ??
Lol no, they’re close.
Please tell me your buddy isn't sat reading this page?
“Your concern is appreciated but I still gotta be able to make my own decisions knowing the consequences.”
“I knew what I was getting into and was fully aware of the risks”
SMDH
The orals crushed him at those dosages long term, that's his biggest mistake. His liver is probably pretty taxed too he should do a ultrasound. I'm sure he already has a hereditary predisposition for heart disease too.
He's going to need TRT probably forever, I'd probably run 100mg a week testosterone no matter what at this point. (Poor hormone level has heart risk of their own) Along with ever heart health supplement available and diet and cardio daily. Some parts of the body are resilient and repair I'm not sure if this is the case but anything is possible with real effort and God most importantly.
That’s the crazy thing, he actually recovered his natty test. He needs a blood dump asap but BP is good, thyroid is fried.
37 recovered natty level is good .
Fr sent
Accepted
Hate to say it but his situation sounds worse than the guy they called mountain dog. He passed away not too long after getting results.
What prompted these exams? Im guessing he is having some symptoms? It's more invasive but he needs a cardic cath to better understand the root cause of his lack of cardiac function. If it's due to a severly blocked coronary artery(arteries that cary blood and oxygen to the heart muscle)and they restore blood supply with a Stent etc..any ischemic(temporarily disabled) parts of the heart muscle could come back to life and start working again and could really improve ejection fractions and overall heart function. It mainly depends on if part of the heart muscle has died(infarction) or it is temporarily dead(ischemic).
Best of luck to you friend I've seen some guys who look great without roids. May help to start watching cali muscle videos for motivation. Best of luck to him. So sad to see this happen. My background is 20 years experience in medical imaging.
A medical team performed random exams on the employees of the company and when it was his turn, they suggested he seek medical attention right away. The more info that gets passed to me the more I’ll share. I’ll update anyway I can.
How the love of muscle can break a heart..
this is sad news, prayers for this man. They find that a lot of users with considerable heart degeneration all have one thing in common. They have drastic amounts of plaque buildup. Ask him if the CT scan included a calcium score
Aside from that some of the structural issues could very well be genetic. Personally I think the damage has been done and he will need complete abstinence from any use of androgens, his heart can't take it anymore.
Cholesterol, BP, plaque build up. They do permanent heart damage over long term use. These are the risks we run
Sorry to hear about what he's going through.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/testosterone-therapy-may-be-s...
At the three-year follow-up, the researchers found no difference in the rate of heart attacks, strokes, or death from cardiovascular problems between the TRT and placebo groups. However, compared with the men using the placebo, those using TRT were more likely to have developed atrial fibrillation (an irregular heart rate that can increase the risk for stroke and heart failure) and pulmonary embolism (in which a blood clot travels to a lung artery and blocks blood flow).
Possible starting spot? Maybe heart enlargement and trt also as a search
I really appreciate this. You always make solid contributions to the forums with the occasional dry sense of humor, you’re one of the most knowledgeable members here. I do know your intentions are genuine and for that I thank you for your commitment.
You other bros know how I feel about all of you so no need to reiterate the appreciation because it’s already been stated.
So it looks to me like his Ejection Fraction has fallen even lower since we last spoke about this Simon?
The whole thing makes for some pretty Horrific reading; do you know if he took Blood pressure medication whilst on all this? What's a normal dose of Clen people take as that looks pretty high compared to what I have seen? Looks like the rapid heart rate caused by Tren and Clen plus the high BP over the years caused by all of it plus high orals has destroyed his heart, very sad to see.
20-40mcg starting with 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. Clen makes me jittery and above 60mcg for me is too much. Eca is lil better ride
Christ so he was using a lot then! That T3 looks like a hefty amount too right? I know its down to the whole lot he was taking - but these stimmers and fat burners really seem like bad news to begin with.
Double the maximum a doctor would prescribe to someone with a non functioning thyroid (IF they would even prescribe it).
20mcg and a small coffee and i swear i can hear a fly fart at 10 paces. And that is from pharma brands so i would literally be terrified of underground labs.
20 mcg to much for me
20mcg and I had a cramp in my throat while driving, most uncomfortable thing ever. Couldn't breath for about 15 sec.
20mcg was the highest I ever taken as well… at 6’4 230-240 at the time, I would just sweat and pace in my free time. Luckily, anxiety never hit me like a pallet of bricks.
Jesus that sounds horrible.
It is so strong it cant be underestimated. I feel bad for the guy. Its literally life changing for him in his current state
That is a shit-ton of clen. Most ramp up to 120mcg over a 4-6wk period with about the same amount of time off or pulse 2wk on 2 wk off. If running 160 6 months straight, recipe for disaster.
With the T3 and the tren his HR must have been terrible.
Clen for sure didn't help or t3 especially if he had underlying issues genetcly he didn't know about.
Hate to say it but he is pretty much fucked. No coming back from that. Best thing to do now is to prevent any further damage. Rebooting HPTA is probably a pipe dream but worth a shot anyway otherwise legit doc supervised TRT and not from one of those TRT clinics that will have him running a small cycle.
He actually rebooted into the 400s
Good it seems to be working. Does he have pre-cycle natty numbers?
From about 1.5 years ago I can get them if I request.
I was just curious if he made it back to pre-cycle levels. As long as things seem to have woken up hopefully they will get better.
That sucks! God bless him!
History has a habit of repeating itself for those who refuse to learn from it.
https://www.eroids.com/forums/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/test-tren-eq...
DobermannAsk a doctor nobody here knows the answer to this i believe...
Yeah, they’re telling him it’s irreversible
I agree. Is he already having arrhythmias or lot more tired all time ?
No, I think it was being masked by substances or he’s just in denial. Any chance these issues could’ve possibly been hereditary ? His doctor mentioned possibly a viral infection but the cause is most likely AAS