+ 1 Thoughts on Labs
I had knee surgery in April lost drive weight muscle etc due to being depressed, had a comeback feeling great running double my TRT (220mg test cyp x2 weekly m&tr) dosage to ramp up for a cycle in the next month hopefully.... dropped bf% and sitting at an all time low of 207.2lbs as of this morning! trying to get everything ready before i add compounds in, so i had blood work done yesterday morning by my doc who is also overseeing my TRT protocol and was completely transparent with him on what i was planning on doing next.... fast forward to 10 min ago and get my labs back...... few questions any and all input is welcome if you have had this or feel knowledgeable enough to speak on it.
THE ONES I FEEL OK ABOUT:
TEST, TOTAL 1750
ESTRADIOL 15
PSA, TOTAL 1.17
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 241 (I EAT CLEAN TRAIN 6X PLAY GOLF ON ACTIVE REST DAY GET STEPS IN BOAT ETC SO NOT WORRIED BOUT ELEVATED)
HDL 42
TRIGLYCERIDES 112
LDL 175
GLUCOSE 91 ( WAS FASTED FOR 12 HOURS)
THE ONES I AM CONCERNED WITH:
AST 46 HIGH
ALT 79 HIGH
SUNDAY WAS MY LAST REST DAY, TRAINED PUSH HEAVY ON MONDAY EVENING HAD BLOODS TUESDAY MORNING 9:20.... DUMB on my part but can this skew liver enzymes??
Doc's texts -- "that's not a high dose of test...liver enzymes can also be increased after working out" "high test levels can increase cholesterol and liver enzymes in some people"
he is checking my bloods from March to see what the comparison looks like but eroids can weigh in quicker than he can email me i am sure lol
doctor is well versed in bodybuilding and a friend but i love to seek a second opinion
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TricepatopsYour test total for 440mgs isn't a good number. Your ALT and AST shouldn't be elevated from a workout if you been consistent in training for the past 3 months. Did you drink any alcohol within 48 hours of test? He is right about high doses of test increasing cholesterol. One positive on cholesterol is HDL is a good number
Your estradiol is pretty low for that much test where you taking any AIs? Low estro can cause depression. I take it your testosterone wasn't pharma? Also 220mgs of test is a high dose for TRT, so doesn't your body absorb and use the testosterone properly?
Also you just did a cycle and want to jump on another one? Rule of thumb is time you are on a cycle should be amount of time off.
hadn't drank since Saturday night, bloods were Tuesday morning....
ive suffered from depression since late 20s, mostly seasonal tho...got bad after that knee surgery but had a huge uptick once i got back to shot regiment and being active again and NOT ** loathing like a bitch
test is pharma straight from the doctors hands to mine...doctor took bloods before i started w/ him and prescribed me 220mg test cyp blend with anastrozole
TricepatopsI would suggest next time do bloods without alcohol for a week and see where you ALT and AST will be at. It could be from working out but for me mine aren't elevated even if I workout the day before. I could be wrong and be an outlier but over time your body will adapt to you working out and the levels shouldn't be elevated.
TricepatopsSo if it is 220mgs you ran then numbers for test are good. That is higher then you want for TRT dose, I use to run 200mgs for a couple years and my cholesterol slowing stayed up until I dropped it to 150-160mgs then I felt better and needed no arimidex or Aromasin.
I am also not sure if it is 220 or 440 weekly, I think 220 that would be more in line with TRT dosages and also the free test
Liver enzymes 100% elevated from training, always take 3 days off of training before bloods for accurate creatinine and liver enzymes.
no one here is going to understand the human body like a doctor, I would trust him, he is correct.
the only thing that jumps out is how low estradiol is in comparison to testosterone, are you running an aromatase inhibitor or proviron or something else other than test?
Absolutely your Liver AST and ALT levels will be raised from training so soon before bloods are drawn, if you look this up online there are many studies showing they remain elevated for up to 7 days after training. There was one guy who was in the 300's or similar and was fit as a fiddle, never drank or took meds and his Doctor just could not understand it - they thought he was in liver failure!! Took 1 to 2 weeks off training and had them redrawn and they were perfect. My Doctor has always said anything routinely over 100 and they begin to get concerned as this is where liver scarring and growths can come into play, anything below this and for short periods its of no worry.
Mine are always slightly above normal due to lifting. Doc knows I am a bodybuilder and is not concerned about it.
do you take any time off from training prior to bloods? day---two days?
thanks man!
No, I don't take any days off prior to bloodwork. My liver values are elevated along with creatinine due to lifting but that is normal for bodybuilders and so not a concern with my doc.
It's a well established phenomenon, idk what bicepatops is talking about, his comments have been shown to be lacking. Dudes under the sup of doc, yet someone with fake stats, no pics and bro science is willing to give their opinion like it matter lol
Buddy he wasn't being funny with me, he is a good guy and is very into trying to help people and looking into science/biology behind things like we are
He just likes to look at things from all different angles and has helped me a lot with things in PM. I'm sure you'd get along with him 
TricepatopsI appreciate at that very much. You have talked to me and I will be the first to admit that if I don't know I will ask around to get others opinions or look for it.
I love that you stand up for your mates bro, but he is not putting on a good look
https://www.eroids.com/forums/hgh-peptides/rhgh/hgh-and-recovery
Completely useless comment
Has fake stats, no pics and he just word vomit comments without reading anything beneath him to see if it's covered.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt since I respect your word and knowledge brother.
TricepatopsOk. We will listen to your comments because everything you say is the right answer and you throw some studies up left and right that half the time aren't even relevant. Also I want really being to serious about the ER GH I was just saying someone sold it here and it is rare. That is it. You get bent out of shape and are on here starting shit with multiple members. I have had real world experience in this stuff and use examples that I have experienced. Now do I mean that is going to be the same for everyone NO. Each person is different and no individual will react the exact same as another person.
Just be aware of anecdote vs medically established data
I do not see a lot of need for anecdote in relation to health and biomarkers.
TricepatopsThe primary objective of the present study was to investigate the effect of intensive muscular exercise (weightlifting) on a single occasion on clinical chemistry parameters, reflecting liver function in healthy men not used to performing weightlifting on a regular basis. A secondary objective was to investigate the effect of a single occasion of intensive muscular exercise (weightlifting) on clinical chemistry parameters reflecting muscle damage, i.e creatine kinase (CK) and myoglobin.
Look at the study better I am not trying to be a dick nor was I using bro science coming to AST and ALT. I have a medical degree and know some things and all studies need to be read with a fine tooth comb. Who did the study, who funded the study, etc. Many studies are bias and are for motive.
Anyways I agree with the study and of course a first time weight lifter will and should have elevated AST and ALT. AST should be higher then ALT. But the study you show is for people who don't lift weights everyday. Now you show me a study where bodybuilders who have down this for years straight have high levels after one workout session then we can talk.
https://journaljpri.com/index.php/JPRI/article/view/31304
This was just a quick google search of "trained athlete liver enzyme elevation" I realize its not a bodybuilder but these are definitely not noobs, I do agree that over time the elevation should be less but you are assuming a lot about OP. Feel free to google and research bud and show me studies with no elevation. I does seem that the ALT is effected less over time in trained athletes so that is a good point, I am not sure it is applicable to OP though. He has a lot going on so hard to track the liver enzyme elevation, when I said that comment he has not talked about previous addiction or his drinking habits, look a the time stamps.
TricepatopsSee I don't necessarily agree with that but I could be abnormal as my ALT and AST are always in range no matter if I trained the day before. The only time it was off was when I went about 3 years without lifting and went back to lifting and mine were elevated bad. But AST doesn't necessarily mean liver either ,AST will be the higher one because that is where you will find muscle breaking down in the blood. ALT is more liver specific per day but AST can be liver also but it can be any damage to a muscle in the body.
But his numbers aren't bad or to elevated and need to have more labs to see where this damage is coming from.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/
It's time for you to sit down, I am tired of reading your dumb ass comments
TricepatopsBro should have read the study better Read my comments below and there are words directly from the study.
TricepatopsThe primary objective of the present study was to investigate the effect of intensive muscular exercise (weightlifting) on a SINGLE occasion on clinical chemistry parameters, reflecting liver function in healthy men not used to performing weightlifting on a regular basis.
Fifteen healthy men, used to moderate physical activity not including weightlifting, performed an 1 h long weightlifting. So I read that is they aren't bodybuilders or guys that don't lift weights. Now I wonder why they were elevated. You know how sore you get the first time you lift. Also did they have blood prior to the lifting to coma Anyways I've time the body adapts. Now if you can show me a study saying we trained bodybuilder who have been doing it for 3 years straight and there levels were elevated
TricepatopsOk, smart ass. I assume you have some medical degree? First off nothing I said was wrong. I get bloods all the time and both my ALT and AST are always normal. Now the only time it wasn't is when I took 3 years off and got them done they were elevated. For the most part people's body adapts to the lifting over time. Some it may not. And AST isn't just a liver marker dumb ass it is for anything that involves muscles in the body.
AST (aspartate aminotransferase) is an enzyme that is found mostly in the liver. It is usually referenced in relation to the liver but you are not wrong it can be from other muscles.
You will be okay bro, no need to be unhinged
TricepatopsYea AST and ALT are enzymes found in liver that detect the breakdown of certain muscles or liver damage. I have seen AST high in my patients with normal ALT and they just had a heart attack or some other type of problem that cause other muscle breakdown. But you come in here ripping me for saying that it could be something other than lifting weights causing his to be slightly elevated. And my post about long GH was just a stupid comment nothing serious and showing that there is on source who carried it. Makwa is in a experimental test with it and I am looking for his opinion but that is besides the point. But u came in here accusing me of fake everything and not knowing what I am talking about. I won't comment if I am not positive about what I am talking about and if I am wrong I will admit it. But the study you threw at me is no good for an everyday weightlifter. That study showed exactly what it should have and really was a waste of money unless it was done 30 years ago. I could have told you they would have been elevated you probably could of to. Take anyone who hasn't lifted make them lift for one hour get sore as hell and of course you will have elevated levels. You could have Pm me or made a comment that didn't attack my credibility or me as a person. That's why I got upset. I am here to help and I have seen many people offer bad advice but I don't say anything unless it will truly harm the person. Only thing I can do is give my advice and hope the OP makes the right decisions. Also broscience can be good but also bad. What I experienced is 10 years of bloods and only one time we're my ALT and AST elevated and that was after a 3 year hiatus from injuries and surgeries
thanks for the weigh in!!! i am going to read into it more just wanted some different takes, feeling a lot better about this already and knew i was somewhat on the right track with realizing i didn't take off days before bloods.
needed to mention that it is compounded from the pharm w/ Anastrozole in the vial, and its 220mg split into two doses injected so 110 on Monday morning and 110 on Thursday pre lunch
fuck i had watched a Coach Greg vid that just mentioned skipping a few sessions before bloods and i completely forgot to do that...but he hit me back last night and said drop by in two weeks lets look at it again with at least 48 hours of rest...
There are a lot of benefits to higher estrogen but I would leave that convo for you and your doc, nothing to worry about here bro.
good looking out, i appreciate your thoughts and comments!!!
TricepatopsI would definitely look at not using an AI with TRT, if you went to a lower dose I bet your numbers will be fine. Also it is just a once a week dose of arimidex? If you dropped to 175mgs a week you would have great numbers for test and would most likely not even need an AI. Less is better