posted Mon, 03/09/2020 - 11:53
2338
+ 1 Can Clomid make LH and FSH signals worse?
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So as per my previous thread......
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/bloods...-po...
After 4 weeks hcg my test went up to 8.9nmol/l (8.64 - 29.00). So bottom of lower range. Lh and fsh had gone to zero due to the hcg.
Now at start of week 7 (day 11 of clomid), my test has dropped to 1.7nmol/l. A minute fraction over what I was at start of pct!
LH had DROPPED TO 1 from 1.7 (1.7 - 8.6) prior and FSH to 0.85 from 1.3 (1.50 - 12.40)
and SHBG had jumped to 70.5nmol/l from 52.2 at end of week 4.
So while starting to feel better on hcg I switch to clomid and feel like crap.with numbers worse than at testing before hcg.
Is this the end of the road?
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"After 4 weeks hcg my test went up to 8.9nmol/l (8.64 - 29.00). So bottom of lower range. Lh and fsh had gone to zero due to the hcg."
So this is part 1. Restart the testes and test blood levels of total and free test - to prove they are working.
So, you failed to restart your bollix to a sufficient level, making what followed afterwards almost redundant...
Giardap, thanks for your comment.
So while in range it was too low? Is it worth restarting hcg again for a longer period of time?
Would this not cause further suppression of LH
I am appreciative of all members who have commented, but now unsure how to proceed.
Is it simply time to trt and an endo?
Well it is literally the bottom end of the range, right?
No I wouldn't suggest trt just because a pct failed. Time in and of itself is the only thing that truly returns us to a norm. Even the most successful pct requires you to taper off the meds and wait at least 3 months before testing your new normal.
I wont tell you what to do, we are all different, but in the past when pact failed, I have had to restart it. Once things were so bad I had to switch testo back on, then re-open the pact properly.
But make no mistake, time and a dip will both be a factor. The body takes time to recover, regardless of meds.
Hcg should never be switched off on-cycle.
Giardap,
Firstly, tomorrow will be the end of 4 weeks clomid... Is it worth taking bloods again and seeing where I am at?
"in the past when pact failed, I have had to restart it. Once things were so bad I had to switch testo back on, then re-open the pact properly."
Does this mean restarting hcg for the testo and try and achieve a higher number from bloods.. Mid range etc? Before switching to serms?
I've read conflicting things about whether hcg can desensitise or not. What's your take on it and if it can be ran for longer than 4-6 weeks?
PcushionI believe his reason for restarting test again was probably to let things stabilize a bit before trying pct again. Pct is easier when you know everything else involved in a healthy hpg function is in normal range.
PcushionYou are going to have to be patient on many levels. Your body was exposed to hcg for a periodof four weeks. Your brain has only been exposed to the clomid for 11 days. Your SHBG is high because of the nolva. That's one of the reasons my clients dol not use nolva during pct. Everything your seeing with your numbers is common all guys will see there LH, fsh, test all fall after hcg and after pct ends. What goes up must come down.
One more thing as previously mentioned your clomid might be bunk or under dosed. The nolva is good based of shbg levels.
Spot on!
Do you think there is any true benefit from adding vit D, zma or such with pct compared to a good balanced diet?
PcushionPersonally no I do not man. Steroids are extremely powerful drugs and they require a counter part of equal power to help rebalance the body. Basically I feel like vit d, zma etc. is putting a bandaid on a bullet wound.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t969nir0ap1zetp/pixlr.jpg?dl=0
First bloods are 3 months after gear finished and unable to carry out a pct due to hospital etc.
Middle panels are with hcg started, end week 2 and 4. Both showing increased testosterone and lh/fsh inhibited due to hcg mimic.
Bottom panel is most recent bloods beginning week 7, 11 days since clomid started and lh not even at pre- hcg levels??
Hcg supposed to be really safe but you are taking something that a placenta makes and is excreted in womens urine ...thats how pregnancy test detect pregnancy so theres a very very slight chance that your clomid is bad and not working under dosed or something else ...And you have had a negative feedback from the hcg .... You could get some pharma pct and start all over and see what happens
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/hcg-101.-why...
Yeah, read that previously by giardap. Also my protocol is based of that, with help from a well respected member.
So from the method there and my bloods. Testis work. Sonething is causing an issue with lh and fsh signals now I'm on the clomid stage. That they are now less than they were at start of pct.
Rustyhooker. Nevermind
Where'd you get your clomid from?
Obviously I can't say source name here.. Or i get bitch slapped. Have spoke to him. Says has sold loads of boxes no issues. I doubt he would 'Knowingly' sell me bunk as have bought from o
him for years. But I did question that in my mind, that hcg swictches of natural lh and then when switching on it was just normal rebooting that little bit after couple weeks that cause sit to go back to 1.. Prolactin was slightly higher at start of hcg. But seemed to spike at blood draw time.. May stress prior. Now in range.
Have the 4 Blood tests pinned so will try post it somewhere now
My bad rephrase pharma or generic which i think you saying generic right.
Hey darkhorse.
They are pharma not ug.
Gonna look in to searching for endo's here in London, UK.
I'm assuming that lack of lh and fsh production with serms would mean your fucked. I'm using 50mg clomid a day. Years ago we used to do 100, 100, 50, 50. But I've been told 50mg will do as much as 100mg.
As the hcg at the first staged worked I was more hopeful, as testis still function.. But getting the pituatry to work again is another story...
I would up the clomid to 100mg add nolva 40mg and see of theres any change...if it doesnt i probably would try something else aromasin and arimidex can stimulate your lh too most people dont consider them but it wouldn't hurt im not sure on the dosing but both have been used by high level athletes to raise test levels to be doping tests...i saw an endo before he said the number one thing was time and he never had someone not recover...but they were most likely very miserable for a couple years... honestly i just had enough i went the trt route
Its day 11 after you quit HCG? If its earlier than that something else is going on, your LH should be on fire while on HCG, I have no idea how long this effect would last after stopping the HCG. When was the 1.7 LH tested?
If by in fire you mean burning away and left as ashes, then yes, HCG will light your LH on fire.
It acts as LH. It is not LH and actually will shut off LH production.
Since it mimics LH doesnt it actually boost the Lh on a blood test while using it?Thought it worked like that.Glad I use HMG too if thats the case. Thanks for letting me know
I’ve never noticed it on any of my blood tests, but I suppose there could be a testing method that confused it. Likely not tho HCG is pretty detectable. They may tell you you’re pregnant tho lol
Yes HCG definetly brings your natural LH down to 0. It was used as part of a reboot. Now on clomid phase is it that I'm just not responding well to the clomid that my lh/fsh numbers have not increased or shouud I give it more time?
I’d add nolva to it if you haven’t already, and give it some time. The HCG woke hour balls up, but your body is gonna need a few weeks to remember how to make LH again. 11 days in on SERMS is way to early to test.
Keep the clomid going, add nolva if you can, and retest in 4-6 weeks.
Keep in mind, with your age and your cycle history, there will be a time that you don’t come back. This is far too early to tell though if this is that time. And I doubt it is. Clomid doesn’t work overnight when your LH is starting at zero.
Apologies all. The way I have laid it out is not very clear. My previous post basically ays after cycle I was rushed to hospital for a urgent leg surgery. Unrelated. Due to stress and being in hospital. Pct wasn't able to be properly carried out. Months of dressings and hospital visits later my dick doesn't work. Long story short as per previous post needed.
So blood test to find out where I was at. My lh was 1.7 so about 3 months after cycle ended. No pct.
HCG for 4 weeks. Day 5 of 5th week clomid started, so 6 days after last HCG shot.
Now blood tests to see what's happening again.
During hcg lh went down to 0. im told that's what's its meant to do. That if testosterone score goes up leydig cells are working, HCG mimics lh and so body stops production as seen on blood test scores
I will try to post the 4 blood tests here to try and make it easier to interpret.
Hcg mimics lh so it can cause your body to lower lh production...if your lh is shutdown it won't stimulate lh production just mimics lh to stimulate testes to return to size make test and sperm when stopped your pretty much where your started on the other hand nolvadex and clomid do stimulate lh production so i don't think you would see a negative impact especially while on it something else must be going on
RustyhookerYa, his prolactin is high....
Rustyhooker..
Yes rusty... Prolactin was higher. At starting it was 10 points out of range and each time blood drawn it reduced. It was deemed to be probably due to stress at time of blood taken.. As it wasn't crazy high. Plus I hadn't used deca or tren for a good while. My blast and cruise was I think 6 months and I hadn't used it during then. Well not in that 6 months anyway.
Could something else have caused the prolactin to be out of range... 3 months after finishing the androgens if it wasn't just an anxiety spike?