posted Tue, 11/13/2018 - 12:07
13570
+ 7 What’s your favorite Testosterone Ester or blend and why?
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Let’s chat about your favorite Test ester or test blend.. list it and why!! For the newbs feel free to ask questions and myself and other memebers will help..
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I had a bit of a discussion/disagreement with my endo last week. He wanted to move me to undeconoate and was talking about 1000mg/4ml every 12 to 16 weeks. I expressed my view that I was going to get some pretty serious peaks and troughs on this protocol and he fundamentally disagreed. He said the research shows this just doesn’t happen and then mentioned we could consider every 8 weeks trough blood work suggested it. I almost pulled out roidcalc to graph it for him but decided that would be foolish.
He said it was my decision in the end so I stayed with my prescribed 200mg of enanthate every 2 weeks which I am administering at 100mg weekly when not on cycle - it only comes in 250mg/ml amps here so I am injecting 0.4ml and transferring the rest to a sterile vial.
I think Undecanoate ester for trt weekly dosed would be brilliant and as stable as you can get. I beleive Makwa doses his trt this way but I may be wrong.
This is what the research shows
It takes 7-8 days to peak. (see the difference in delivery based on type of oil used?!)
I think >3 and maybe 4 weeks is a better pinning schedule.
Greater than 6 weeks is plain wrong, unless he is reading research from a pharma company with some sort of proprietary oil preparation that causes a different delivery curve (as you see a difference here).
So this is the thing... The half life is dependent on many factors, and so therefore is the right pinning schedule.
Your doc might be right, specific to a certain preparation.
But I still wouldn't want to use it, looks like too big a gap between peak and trough.
But your plan may be better, but to benefit, you would still want to see e3w or something????
Thanks mate. Yes 6 weeks of the Nebido (castor oil) preparation looks spot on for stability at the upper end of the range. I can’t see the data point last 56 days but I can imagine you’re going to get some gnarly peaks and troughs. The other point is that this is going to take a while to build stability given the pharmakinetics so some front loading is probably needed. All This actually makes sense because 250mg of Test U = 158mg of actual testosterone. Can you send me the latest no to the actual research in PDF. I may want to have a chat to the endo again about this.
It's a book actually.... it's, I think, the most recent edition or one of them, there might be a 2017 revision, but this will be the preceding one. It is really accessible. I will email it to you. Will send you a PM. Actually, I have 2 books, you will love both, for specific things that are definitely relevant to your journey and chats with the endo. (nothing trumps what happens inside your own body though at the end of the day).
That is the prescribed dosing protocol for it. Never did understand that 4ml shot at once. It may make sense based on the pharmokinetics but just that amount of oil alone sitting there in a bolus in your ass is a problem waiting to happen. Welcome to the 4cc club. After some experimentation I liked to do the loading phase by injecting 250mg/wk for the first 4 wk (get your 1000mg in) and then maintain with one one injection(250mg) EOW. This may put you on the high end so you may need to go down somewhat in your EOW dose based on your bloodwork. Really don't need weekly injections with Test U. Could probably stretch it out every 3rd week but I haven't put that to the test.
I’d love to be able to do this! But I would have to make sure I can get myself back to my expected trough enanthate level based on 200mg every two weeks just before my annual endo appointment - for me that’s 404 ng/dl. I guess I could spend sometime experimenting with this but that would get in the way of my cycle plans. Maybe at some point I’m the future when/if I plan and spending 6 months just on trt this could be on the cards. Would have to be UGL though so would have to find a decent UK or EU source for this too.
People pinning once a month 500-700mg are getting around 600 or so test readings, seen half a dozen labs on it but every 2-3 may be better depending on what end you fall metabolization wise.
I Disagree with the doctor. It was hard finding information on test undecanoate and took me months to determine the best treatment plan. It has a half life of 90 days +/- 45, little broad right? It seems the people who have the best experience use 500-700mg once a month and day it’s much better than Enanthate and Cyp. I have a couple friends that don’t know how to get stuff like we do and had me get them some of the undecanoate to replace their current trt regime and they really like it.
Yes exactly. I’d like to try at 100mg EW to start but in the UK it comes in a 4ml ampule of 100mg and they will only administer the whole thing. It bonkers but trying to argue half life maths and pharmakinetics with a endo seemed pointless as he’s never going to admit he was wrong. I’d just do it myself but problem is i need to see him once a year for trough blood work to keep my prescription on the NHS and he would see something is up.
On enanthate it’s easy for me to manipulate it back to an expected trough level on 200mg every two weeks and if I get tested as some point intra year (this can happen as I run high Hb/HCT) again is easy to manipulate back to where it should be. Especially handy when running cycles. I’m also basically sitting on about 40ml of pharma enanthate (all amps) as I am using UGL vials that I trust and I regularly blood test myself. Plan on using these for an upcoming cycle.
The only thing available commercially is that Bayer Nebido 4ml 1,000mg amp right? Unfortunately that kind forces you to stick to there programs doesn’t it? Not sure what I would do if I were you so if you find a way to get it done I would love to hear about it.
Yes that’s right. And it gets more complicated as because of the size of the injection they insisted on administering it in the surgery. So effectively if I want to maintain the legitimacy of my trt prescription (which I do) I either have to do it their way (which I won’t) or stick with enanthate.
Yeah it’s very stupid and pointless. Bayer formulated Nebido with the dual theory that using castor oil and higher would slow absorption time and extend half life. They flat out said they don’t think this had any effect at all and is not necessary, yet an American company (I think) is/has made a product called Aveedo with the same formulation, I’ll have to double check though but yay progress.
It can be made at 300-400mg/ml so I don’t know why someone hasn’t worked on bringing better product and protocols to market.
I would say mine is Sustanon first then water based Test.. I can pack on more muscle with water based test than any other thing I’ve tried.. now the pinning schedual is unreal 3x a day but it’s effective Deff not for the novice
Lately Test E. Probably my imagination but it seems like I retain more water on cyp..
Cyp. If it’s good enough for domestic pharma it’s good enough for me. E works but for some reason I like cyp more, seems like I get more stable levels. Could be all in my head.
It does sound stupid.. but I seemed to respond better to cyp than E.. it’s prob all in my head tho
RustyhookerSustanon. Ed pins. Makes blends easier. Matches the long esters nicely like deca/eq
I’m assuming you’ve had experience with real Organon Sustanon. How likely is it that UGLs are taking the time to carefully measure out 30 mg test propionate, 60 mg test phenylpropionate, 60 mg test isocaproate, and 100 mg testosterone decanoate? Even if most UGL “sust” is just a prop, E, and cyp blend adding up to the same amount of test, is there a difference in efficacy?
Dominick77^^^BoOm^^^
Just to keep this conversation going. Do you find it any harder dialling in an ai with the different esters invoved? Obviously bloodwork is the key.
I’ve ran sust once but broke out with acne worse than any other compound.
RustyhookerChanging the week for bloods is made. Week 6 instead of 4 but if you get greasy, water retention, high e2 symptoms you can start low if needed. Sust imo is advanced simply because when esters peak and knowing your response to e2.
Low e2...no growth. High e2 then you can get the sides depending on your body. Some folks can let e2 run higher and be fine. Guys needing letro.... find low test cycles and make it simple. Or youre constantly fighting that which should be fun.
For me mast/provi works well enough. But others need ai. Again, person to person differences. 10 or more pin points. And 25ga x 1 pin
Yeah that makes sense. Thanks
I have ran Sust everyway there is, and you are correct I prefer ED injections to keep blood level constant and steady.. it pairs nice with Decca for a great bulk cycle
Sorry didn’t see your reply, same question to you as well if you don’t mind. How did you cope with your ai an the different esters?
Honestly I very rarely ever ran a AI .. I think it’s over used butyou should always have it on hand Incase things go wrong
Fair enough. I always have it on hand but don’t generally don’t go over 500mg test e a week anyway so barely use it. Like I said to rusty I was wondering if I broke out with acne more on sust because of the sust esters causing estro fluctuations or another factor
I would say your was not pinning often enough and you was getting big fluctuations in hormone levels
M/W/F pins each week. Maybe ed pins would of been better but don’t like being a pin cushion for 12ish weeks.
3 days should still get you somewhat stable bloods around week 6 because of the long acting esters.. did you pull bloods?
Yeah, it was a couple of years ago but I’m sure estro was mid 40’s. total test just short of 4000.
Pinned Wednesday morning, test taken Friday morning, week 7.