+ 7 “Most Bodybuilders Eat Too Many Damm Carbs” Bill Phillips
Years ago I was reading a magazine Muscle Media 2000 published by Bill Phillips who was the founder of EAS supplements. The Mag was great and hardcore.
In an article Phillips said “Most bodybuilders eat too many damm carbs”. He had a picture in the article of a muscular guy with a big belly. That thought has rung through my head ever since. One reason is that I know I'm guilty of it!
How many times do we go through pictures here at eroids to see guys on a bulk looking huge, but sucking in a massive gut? Too often!
Try as we must not to get fat we turn to lean bulks, but somehow it remains a problem for many of us including me. Of course if your young with a fast metabolism this doesn't apply to you. However, if you battle the bulge it surely does.
One of the issues is appetite! After a workout I could eat the dumbbells I just lifted. Testosterone and many other compounds give me an enormous hunger for food! Not good!
We try to get our Macros right but somehow our gut says too many carbs! So one recommendation I have is when your laying out a bulk cycle and you figure your macros simply cut the carbs by roughly 15%. Hopefully this will help.
Another suggestion is to drink lots of water to kill appetite! Water is a great appetite suppressant. Fiber is another good appetite killer so add some fiber! Now I have to follow my own advice!
We cycle carbs on off days and that helps. Anything we can do to avoid the gut. Oh how we hate to have to get rid of it.
I had a great protein bar 2:1 bars and sadly they don't make them anymore. The bar had fiber was very low carb and had great whey isolate in it. Too bad most bars and shakes are like eating a Three Musketeers!
Some guys throw a lil T3 into the bulking cycle to try to burn of some extra fat. All these things are wonderful, but the bottom line is you can't eat too many damm carbs! It's tough!
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My grow season starts next week after a few weeks off from contest prep now completed.
I enjoy having 1000+calorie shakes for a few reasons.
During my last grow season I did a great job of keeping abs while going up 15lbs from where I was before last years grow season within shorter period of time. 5000-6000calories.
Pretty easy to hit and manage with the shakes with approx. 60grms of high quality whey isolate (no bs fillers) 180grms of dextrose and about 30-40grms of carbs/sugar from the juice I used to shake it all up.
Timing of these shakes are KEY along with the fact that there is ZERO fat in the juice/dextrose/protein used.
Straight up healthy nutrient partitioning along with the TABOO timing.
2meals that are relatively clean ie:steak/chicken/fish with either white rice/yams/pasta and then a cheat meal MINIMUM per day. Some of us can get away with more than others.
This did not include the "1am gotta pee so I may as well get some food" which would consist of cereal, fruit etc.
I believe the guys that actually EAT ALL of their food (6-8meals) may have greater issues especially if having to eat much cleaner not to mention the inflammatory affect of certain foods that will cause stomach bloat.
Compounds used may also cause gastric distress and thus bloating but my above helped me wake up with abs and slimmer waistline than what I had prior to going to bed.
For me, there is a direct correlation on how much food I eat along with compounds used to ensure that those nutrients are expedited for use optimally.
Hope this helps.
I have shakes with the same amount of isolate in no probs - but how do you stomach that much dextrose? Damn that must taste sweet lol I put in max 50g and could never manage 4 times that.
Check out Vitargo instead of dextrose
I've got some and its awful buddy - The stuff mixes like sludge. Got my money back lol
Ahhh!!!! no way!!! ah thats a shame now. I like it, way easier on the stomach! But yeah fair enough man!!!
It’s slimy but raises insulin much more than dextrin.
Cyclic dextrin is my go to now. I also gave up on vitargo for the same reason.
Good stuff but tougher to find legit high quality version not to mention at a reasonable price.
DEXTROSE is simple, highly effective and very cheap!
I buy a 10lb tub (cost price) and the usual retail price is $32.99.
First one I bought I saved a protein scoop and did the math of adding per table spoon to fill it up according to what the bottle stated. I get about 63grms of Dextrose per scoop.
Still lasts me a while considering I use far more than most daily.
We pay $12 for 11lb's of Dextrose here, Cyclic Dextrin is top grade powder from Japan but is $40 for 6lbs...
Ya know I keep nearly buying that, but then don't want to end up wasting my money again - Is it good stuff? I'm assuming you use BP in the U.K also do you? I use the Isopro 97 & dextrose powder..
Yes I use BP in the UK and I find it great. No mixing issues like the vitargo but you do have to shake or well and I fill my shaker with water. I also found I was going hypo (especially if taking IGF-1 LR3/DES) on the vitargo after about an hour following having my shake especially if doing LISS. Don’t have that problem with the dextrin.
Lol The next thing I was going to ask you was does it take care of low blood sugar well on things like tren/dbol so that you don't get hypo's! You read my mind pal
Yeh BP really is good stuff, top end products at dirt cheap prices and they have everything and more. The IGF1 LR3 is another thing I keep nearly biting the bullet on but if its borderline hypo's most of the time I find it too stressfull. Are they fairly easy to keep on top of you find? I'm going to order some of that Dextrin right now..
No mate I wouldn’t worry about hypos often on the IGF-1. Very manageable with carbs post workout and then a bit more 40mins later if you find you’re getting them. It’s trult fantastic stuff in my view.
WIth it digesting much quicker through your system and not sitting as heavy as dextrose does I'm assuming it means you are ready to eat much sooner and not as full so its better to bulk on? Thanks for all your help on this.
Spot on. Typically I’m taking 30g to 60g of dextrin post workout and then I have 400g of fresh pineapple about 45mins later and then I eat dinner about an hour after that. No digestion issues.
Awesome - Its gonna be here tomorrow so I'll be able to give a verdict! They have a good offer on at the moment so its considerably cheaper than normal with it being quite expensive
Its a quick mix, down half fast and sip the remaining over about 10-15mins.
Sometimes I drop it down to 150grams but nutrient intake is what separates those who say they want to grow and those who do!
Much easier to get 3-3.5K in calories via shake vs trying to eat all 6K+ in food. LOL.
I’ve never tried it your way. I think is will experiment next year when I run my bulk and give it a go. I won’t be pushing calories as high as you as I don’t need to for my size and I doubt I’ll be using the taboo. Could be a more comfortable way to get to 5k and keep those fats low. Will pick your brains in PM closer to the time if that’s ok.
What brand to you use
The famous - bodybuilder pregnancy stomach. Is a result of this, putting yourself on harsh diet in thousands of carbs a day and using serious gear on top of that. Golden Era bodybuilding was more pleasant to my eye, not judging, but smaller waist and bigger packs is what I would aim. "no homo
We need to eat smart, not much. I can eat the same carbs eating in Mac Donald and gain shitload of fat, (just my case) or I could do proper planned box diet (I like to call that that way) - chicken, brown rice, veggies. And get where I need to get.
It's all relevant too. Different people, different approach and results. And then there is metabolism and genes.
Kind of the point I was making
McDonald's: Carbs + fat = lots of fat on belly
Box Diet: Carbs + very little fat = no fat on belly
Carbs + fat will kill you everytime.
True to that.
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I am a whore for carbs after working out it's really hard to not jump into my pantry and literally grab a piece of bread and spread butter all over it and mow down 5 of them.
Eating carbs willy nilly is foolish. Eating a boatload of carbs along with fat is also a sure fire way to pack on fat fast. Spike that insulin with a bunch of carbs and if eaten along with fat, that insulin spike will drive that fat right into storage. Bottom line is if you wan't to pack on quality mass in a reasonable amount of time you need a bunch of carbs. It is not just a matter of eating carbs though. You have to time the consumption and type of carbs to really optimize muscle over fat.
There are plenty of ways to get big fast with minimal fat gain. There will be fat gain but that is just part of the overall equation. I'll take 3 lbs of muscle and pound of fat anyday. Still a net positive change in body composition and 3 lbs of muscle is a ton and losing 1 lb of fat is pretty easy. Just bulk smart and you don't have anything to worry about.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/dirty-bulk-bad-idea
Agreed.
3-1 ratio is well worth it and even less is possible but we have to keep in mind that certain compounds need be used to optimize nutrient transportation along with the support of other AAS.
It is no longer to far fetched to get bigger and leaner at the same time but most people simply won't have the funds, time or dedication needed to be so strict with everything that matters to do so. Getting bigger at a 3-1 ratio with minimal stress to cover all your bases is worth while.
One of the biggest faults is that most on here are comparing their progress to the Elite Level Athletes/PROS regardless of their regimes.
When you are not living their lifestyle to its fullest degree the comparison will always have one falling short.
Use the MIRROR and PICTURES to tell you the TRUTH about how you're progressing. If you're starting to put to much fat on, back off reassess changes to lower body fat while maintaining as much new muscle earned. Once corrected, jump on the GROW train again. You cannot rush the process without drastic overconsumption of AAS and other compounds, massive amounts of food AND...increasing your chances of doing more harm than good
Truth be told, I would even take a 1:1 ratio. It is just so damn hard to build any muscle now, so if I can go pound for pound with muscle and fat I'll probably take it. May not be happy, but I'll take it as a last resort. We are looking at months if not more to build muscle but that extra fat can be stripped in a matter of weeks. Obviously we can do things to skew the nutrient partitioning though, so I would strive for more on something like a 2:1 if training natural or much higher if using PED's.
Amen!
I've not ever been the "dirty bulk" (I hate that phrase) kind of guy where every meal is a cheat meal.
However, eating super clean is also not the answer for long term growing...maintaining, sure.
Your body will adapt and make it even more challenging (IMO) when getting ready for a contest etc. if you continue to eat super clean all year round with ambitions to grow and/or compete.
Natural or not, surplus calories (as MAKWA mentions) are needed to grow just as calorie deficit is required reduce.
Types of nutrient intake does play a key role as well as does the timing.
No matter what you do, if it is no longer working change it up, monitor your progress and understand the value of added muscle even at the cost of a little bodyfat that can get taken care of at a later date.
Nutrient timing is key!You always Put things into perspective.Not just what but when!
I would prefer to eat like a little bird. But im trying to get to 225. I have trouble getting big but can get flabby quick. So finding a balance has been my goal with my diet. Really trying to shovel the food has made me miserable. Doing reaearch here i found every one talking about makwa's post on cyclic bulking. Not sure if im doing it 100%correctly. But ive been shoveling the food for 2 weeks then cutting back half the carbs for a week. Then back to the shovel.
And to say im not miserable is a blessing. And im growing. And not just in the waist area
Could be age related but I think John has a good point. Ofcourse John and I are much older than your avg. eroider..
The distended gut comes from GH and Insulin not carbs.These guys have to add the insulin when the take too much GH to control blood sugar,when they are eating 10000 calories a day.You should read more muscle media,this was one of their favorite topics.Bill Phillips hated the direction body building had taken and was very out spoken about it!
Theres plenty of bodybuilders around who still don't use gh. I agree with the post. I also agree with yours. The golden era bodybuilders just looked better. They should reward a tiny waist more in the scoring. Lee Haney was the last guy to really have that...
I agree.The dirty secret is the one we don’t approach.It will give you a gut even without GH.I was specifically talking about the mass monsters of the mid 90’s early 2000’s.
I also agree it is a good post.I wasn’t trying to sound like a dick.I actually think people should read those years of Bill Phillips rag.It was some of the best body building info put into print and actually told the truth.
+2 differences of opinion are why I'm on this site. It's the only way to learn. I'm not thin skinned bro.
Calories in>calories out is personally what I think it comes to. Don’t expect to eat a huge surplus amount of calories weather that’s fats, protein or carbs and expect to not gain a massive amount of fat.
Great thread John.
I agree. I also don't believe some of the guys on here who claim to eat 4000 calories and up with 250 mgs of protein. I get that much protein at around 2700 calories easily.
X2. I can hit 375 grams of protein, and still be busting ass to break 4000 calories when trying to bulk. Most of the guys saying they are eating 4-5k calories a day at 185 pounds are full of shit.
Winter time bulk comes, and even with a solid meal plan, sometimes I’m adding everything up in the evening, and thinking, how the hell am I going to catch up and still maintain a half assed decent macro balance?
And then I eat some ice cream and say tomorrow will be better... lol.
I am currently eating around 4000 cal a day and im lucky the day i hit 250mg protein. Usually its around 210-230. That means my diet is shit? Its mostly carbs. I read somewhere that more than 1,5gr of protein per lbs was wasted anyway?
I don’t eat over 250g protein and that’s at my peak when I’m pushing cals in for a bulk. Most of the time I’m between 185g and 225g. My fats never go over 100g (normally range 65g to 80g) and the rest is carbs which I cycle - even when I am growing. I do LISS year round at 12k steps 7 days a week. Will add extra conditioning work at the beginning of a cut but as calories get lower and lower I’ll drop off the conditioning and take the intensity (heavy lifting) down notches and let the diet do most of the work. That’s what I found works for me. Everyone is different.
I’m lead to believe a lot of those calories come from monster 1000 calorie shakes!
I’m hitting 200 protein at around 1,700 calories at the moment!
I agree I'm hitting225 with calories at1800 to 2000...
^^^^^ This and eat what makes you feel and look good. Everyone is different!
Thanks mate. Why that can’t be pizza and cookies I don’t know.
Pizza sounds great. Sundays cheat meal day...
I’ll be round at 6 bro!
Yep pizza on re feed day!for me that’s always leg day!
Definitely agree on the notion of too many carsb getting consumed. +
It isnt an issue really until insulin resistance sets in and then the real trouble starts. That's how I developed reactive hypoglycaemia. No problem when younger but now as things change in my 40's, the body just doesnt process them the way it used to.
Time makes fools of us all.
Personally I never looked or felt better than when I added more carbs, dropped my protein and upped my activity. I walk 14k to 16k steps per day and workout hard 5 days a week. I am desk based the rest of the time. Yes you put on fat bulking but this is an inevitable part of the process and one not to be afraid off. There are nutritional ways to mitigate this (carb and calorie cycling, with resets/mini-cuts etc.). At the end of the day you need those carbs to build true size and thickness in my view and then It’s all about an effective cut and muscle mass maintenance and carbs will play their part here too.
I’m sure someone who competes like Makwa will stop by and share his view. I remember us having many conversations with Viking and Catalyst on this subject over the years and frankly the consensus was that anyone who is afraid of putting on fat while bulking was doomed to forever spin their wheels. Just my 2c!
I personally dont think adding T3 is wonderful, and much less on a bulk