Have u ever tried bulking before since u have been cutting down from 200 all this time? The reason I ask is because I have never tried a cut before u til recently and it’s a lot different reading my body this way.
For example, I kept stepping on the scale with little results and taking my standard pinch in the abdomin where I’m trying to loose some with no result. Come to find out I’ve lost 1% BF when I tried the 3 point pinch and gained some muscle. That’s why the scale barely went down and I thought I was doing something wrong.
Maybe try a quick bulk before cycle to see how u react to it. I know I’m not ready to cycle eat because I don’t feel confident on cutting yet. Let’s you see he other side of the coin.
Morning Sir. I have done a few bulking cycles before (non-AAS assisted, just diet). The strange thing is that my body’s physiology reaches a certain point in which it seems that I’m unable to gain any more muscle, and my steady increase in calories just gets stored as fat. My diet has gone as high as 360g carbs, 250g protein, and 90g fat in a day and kept that consistent for about a month before adjusting. That has been my upper calorie limit so far, and I honestly didn’t gain much lean body mass from that, primarily just excessive fat.
You are correct in the methods of measurement though. I just consider weight to be a number, but I base my progress on body caliper pinch tests, and how I look in the mirror. Performance is sometimes assessed as well. If I am looking leaner and the scale is going down, but I feel stronger and and perform better, those are also indicators that I’m still progressing in the right direction.
Just to repeat, I have done a few natural bulking cycles, followed by cuts, but my body has consistently reached this natural set point that it likes to stay at, regardless of adjustments to my training or increases in calories. The rest continuously just gets stored as subcutaneous fat.
Heck this out I know I’m gonna try it once I’m ready to bulk again. Make sure the back fat doesn’t some back again. But yes I use the mirror rule more so than the scale. What threw me off is my abdominal reading went up 1% so I freaked out cuz the scale went up. Turns out my readings from chest and thigh went down a point each so I’m technically still losing fat just not where I want.
The mirror is really the only way to go. I get on a scale maybe once a quarter. I keep telling my wife the same thing, but it’s harder for women to go by the mirror.
The mirror was telling me I was losing fat everywhere except the love handles and they actually looked worse so I kept weighing myself and the scale wasn’t really moving, then went up. Moved to a 3 point BF pinch and it was confirmed. Actually my arms went up 1/2 inch each that’s why I gained weight back
Just saying for the OP no experience bulking after only cutting may not be a good idea based on my experience being the opposite: no experience cutting. I don’t wanna run a cycle and have no experience cutting after I’m done
I don't think you're heavy enough to warrant a cycle yet brother, also 1800 calories a day is no where near enough for a natural athlete, let alone an enhanced one. Guys on gear are usually taking in well over 3k calories a day
As far as the HCG question: what I did my first cycle was 2 weeks after my last ran HCG EOD for a week and began my PCT protocol. Not sure if this is the correct way, but blood work was fine months later. I don't see a point to run HCG any earlier bc test levels are still elevated 2-3 weeks after the last pin and possible longer if cyp was used
I agree with the calorie intake. 500 above maintenance is a great place to start.
He's relatively lean though, a true 13% not an eroids 13% which is really a 23%.. I think sometimes it's easy to see a weight and say he need to gain more when he's actually got a fair amount of muscle mass on him just not a huge amount of fat like the 200lbs members around here claiming 13% bf when they are really 20%+. Not arguing just putting across my point.
I agree with you on both parts. I didn't want to be the one to say go for it. But, I mean yea, 13% at 160 isn't small by any means. Curious how this turns out
Thanks for your response Sir, honest opinions are exactly what I wanted here. I really have to make an informed decision based on all the research I’ve done and input from the experienced guys here, so I still have some consideration to do. You are correct about the diet though. Even with a solid plan in all other aspects, I need to reassess my nutrition based on my goals, and of course making this cycle worthwhile.
Thanks for your input on the HCG as well. As I’m continuing to see, the information on this is mixed, even for something that most would consider to be a basic cycle.
Thanks again. I know that eroids is an incredible source of info and worth diving into, as long as some individual research is done first before asking repetitive questions. I'm sure come August, I will be back with my cycle log and see where this takes me. In the mean time, I'm still determined to grind away and achieve all that I can. Cheers Sir.
Keep moving forward hit the nail on the head in my opinion. I think you've got a good base to start your first cycle and you've done a lot of your own research. There is some room still to grow naturally but personally I wouldn't say it would be reckless to start cycling at your level.
Personally I found clomid anything over 50mg to give me terrible sides although most lads are fine with 100mg. Try to run pharmacy PCT meds if possible.
Hcg, personally I like to run it with all my cycles at 250iu x2 a week starting from week 6, although there is varied opinions this is what I find helped my recovery the most.
Your goals are not uncommon but again in my opinion you'll waste this cycle trying to gain muscle and cut fat, why not bulk sensibility and eat 500+ calories more than maintenance to really make the most of your first cycle. After a few weeks up it a further 500+ calories if needed. Fat gain will be minimal and muscle gains will be dramatic. You can always cut later on.
You'll soon find out almost everything in this game is person relative, from ai, results, how much protein you need all the way to how often you need to train to how many reps it takes to build muscle on yourself. It's all trial and error. Good luck bro and keep us posted, upload your blood work also and the more knowledgable members will help you in this journey.
I appreciate your responses and for taking the time to share your opinion and information. I still have some research to do and may very well go for this cycle, just need to get everything planned out as best as possible. If everything is a go, I’ll most likely start beginning August, that way I don’t have to be concerned with my work travels. No point in starting early summer if I’ll be gone for a month. Best to start upon my return.
I’ll be sure to keep everyone posted and submit a complete log when the day comes. Having a complete log of information would be a helpful for anyone, or even my own reference for future cycles.
Your plan looks solid and you’ve done research for sure +1 from me.
I think you should get bloods done before you do anything and see where you are at. Also I think you maybe prone to gyno but I’m not sure. I’d just pay close attention to that or you aren’t getting a really good squeeze on chest, instead of focusing on the weight focus more on the squeeze and the slow negative.
Test e 500mg a week worked great for me on my first cycle it definitely showed me that I wasn’t eating enough before I started. I think you could put on a little more muscle naturally but I also think you are smart and have done your homework. I’d listen to what the more experienced guys have to say I just thought I’d chime in. Good luck man and eroids will definitely help you out with your goals.
Thank you Sir, I appreciate your response. You’re right about estrogen sensitivity. I feel like my last year’s results of 558 ng/dL of test was a little low, and potential higher estrogen might be the reason why I have such a difficult time losing subcutaneous fat in my abdomen and legs.
Great to see you've put some solid hours into researching mate. +2 for that.
Can you upload a self photo? Then we can really see where you're at. There's lots that we could help you with but it would be great to see what we are working with.
Yes Sir. I took a front and back photo last night, just trying to figure out how to upload them to this thread. I didn’t see where to attach photos when originally writing this.
I think I finally got it figured out. The pictures didn't pop up on this thread, but they're on my profile now at least. For those that have replied so far, thank you for your responses. My intent before posting anything was to do as much research as possible, so I appreciate your patience with me and supporting the research I have found so far. I want to make sure I get as much figured out as possible before jumping in, in order to eliminate as many mistakes as possible.
For PCT, I stick with the standard (?) protocol for a total of 4 weeks but not started till 2 weeks after my last injection: Clomid--100/100/50/50; Nolva--40/40/20/20. I have never used HCG, although I am sure some guys would say it is necessary.
Edit: I would personally make the suggestion to stay natural as long as possible. To me it looks like you could gain some more weight naturally. Also, your cutting diet looks good. If you were to take a Test only cycle and increase the carbs and protein, I do not see why your diet would not work.
Have u ever tried bulking before since u have been cutting down from 200 all this time? The reason I ask is because I have never tried a cut before u til recently and it’s a lot different reading my body this way.
For example, I kept stepping on the scale with little results and taking my standard pinch in the abdomin where I’m trying to loose some with no result. Come to find out I’ve lost 1% BF when I tried the 3 point pinch and gained some muscle. That’s why the scale barely went down and I thought I was doing something wrong.
Maybe try a quick bulk before cycle to see how u react to it. I know I’m not ready to cycle eat because I don’t feel confident on cutting yet. Let’s you see he other side of the coin.
AnonMorning Sir. I have done a few bulking cycles before (non-AAS assisted, just diet). The strange thing is that my body’s physiology reaches a certain point in which it seems that I’m unable to gain any more muscle, and my steady increase in calories just gets stored as fat. My diet has gone as high as 360g carbs, 250g protein, and 90g fat in a day and kept that consistent for about a month before adjusting. That has been my upper calorie limit so far, and I honestly didn’t gain much lean body mass from that, primarily just excessive fat.
You are correct in the methods of measurement though. I just consider weight to be a number, but I base my progress on body caliper pinch tests, and how I look in the mirror. Performance is sometimes assessed as well. If I am looking leaner and the scale is going down, but I feel stronger and and perform better, those are also indicators that I’m still progressing in the right direction.
Just to repeat, I have done a few natural bulking cycles, followed by cuts, but my body has consistently reached this natural set point that it likes to stay at, regardless of adjustments to my training or increases in calories. The rest continuously just gets stored as subcutaneous fat.
Thank you for your response Sir.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkHeck this out I know I’m gonna try it once I’m ready to bulk again. Make sure the back fat doesn’t some back again. But yes I use the mirror rule more so than the scale. What threw me off is my abdominal reading went up 1% so I freaked out cuz the scale went up. Turns out my readings from chest and thigh went down a point each so I’m technically still losing fat just not where I want.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/the-key-to-quality-mas...
The mirror is really the only way to go. I get on a scale maybe once a quarter. I keep telling my wife the same thing, but it’s harder for women to go by the mirror.
The mirror was telling me I was losing fat everywhere except the love handles and they actually looked worse so I kept weighing myself and the scale wasn’t really moving, then went up. Moved to a 3 point BF pinch and it was confirmed. Actually my arms went up 1/2 inch each that’s why I gained weight back
Just saying for the OP no experience bulking after only cutting may not be a good idea based on my experience being the opposite: no experience cutting. I don’t wanna run a cycle and have no experience cutting after I’m done
AnonThank you for providing the link, I will definitely overview that thread and see what it says.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.Permalinkbasskiller89I don't think you're heavy enough to warrant a cycle yet brother, also 1800 calories a day is no where near enough for a natural athlete, let alone an enhanced one. Guys on gear are usually taking in well over 3k calories a day
As far as the HCG question: what I did my first cycle was 2 weeks after my last ran HCG EOD for a week and began my PCT protocol. Not sure if this is the correct way, but blood work was fine months later. I don't see a point to run HCG any earlier bc test levels are still elevated 2-3 weeks after the last pin and possible longer if cyp was used
I agree with the calorie intake. 500 above maintenance is a great place to start.
He's relatively lean though, a true 13% not an eroids 13% which is really a 23%.. I think sometimes it's easy to see a weight and say he need to gain more when he's actually got a fair amount of muscle mass on him just not a huge amount of fat like the 200lbs members around here claiming 13% bf when they are really 20%+. Not arguing just putting across my point.
basskiller89I agree with you on both parts. I didn't want to be the one to say go for it. But, I mean yea, 13% at 160 isn't small by any means. Curious how this turns out
AnonThanks for your response Sir, honest opinions are exactly what I wanted here. I really have to make an informed decision based on all the research I’ve done and input from the experienced guys here, so I still have some consideration to do. You are correct about the diet though. Even with a solid plan in all other aspects, I need to reassess my nutrition based on my goals, and of course making this cycle worthwhile.
Thanks for your input on the HCG as well. As I’m continuing to see, the information on this is mixed, even for something that most would consider to be a basic cycle.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.Permalinkbasskiller89Anytime brother, if you head down the route and run something don't be afraid to ask if you ever want a second opinion on something
AnonThanks again. I know that eroids is an incredible source of info and worth diving into, as long as some individual research is done first before asking repetitive questions. I'm sure come August, I will be back with my cycle log and see where this takes me. In the mean time, I'm still determined to grind away and achieve all that I can. Cheers Sir.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkKeep moving forward hit the nail on the head in my opinion. I think you've got a good base to start your first cycle and you've done a lot of your own research. There is some room still to grow naturally but personally I wouldn't say it would be reckless to start cycling at your level.
Personally I found clomid anything over 50mg to give me terrible sides although most lads are fine with 100mg. Try to run pharmacy PCT meds if possible.
Hcg, personally I like to run it with all my cycles at 250iu x2 a week starting from week 6, although there is varied opinions this is what I find helped my recovery the most.
Your goals are not uncommon but again in my opinion you'll waste this cycle trying to gain muscle and cut fat, why not bulk sensibility and eat 500+ calories more than maintenance to really make the most of your first cycle. After a few weeks up it a further 500+ calories if needed. Fat gain will be minimal and muscle gains will be dramatic. You can always cut later on.
You'll soon find out almost everything in this game is person relative, from ai, results, how much protein you need all the way to how often you need to train to how many reps it takes to build muscle on yourself. It's all trial and error. Good luck bro and keep us posted, upload your blood work also and the more knowledgable members will help you in this journey.
+1
AnonI appreciate your responses and for taking the time to share your opinion and information. I still have some research to do and may very well go for this cycle, just need to get everything planned out as best as possible. If everything is a go, I’ll most likely start beginning August, that way I don’t have to be concerned with my work travels. No point in starting early summer if I’ll be gone for a month. Best to start upon my return.
I’ll be sure to keep everyone posted and submit a complete log when the day comes. Having a complete log of information would be a helpful for anyone, or even my own reference for future cycles.
Your plan looks solid and you’ve done research for sure +1 from me.
I think you should get bloods done before you do anything and see where you are at. Also I think you maybe prone to gyno but I’m not sure. I’d just pay close attention to that or you aren’t getting a really good squeeze on chest, instead of focusing on the weight focus more on the squeeze and the slow negative.
Test e 500mg a week worked great for me on my first cycle it definitely showed me that I wasn’t eating enough before I started. I think you could put on a little more muscle naturally but I also think you are smart and have done your homework. I’d listen to what the more experienced guys have to say I just thought I’d chime in. Good luck man and eroids will definitely help you out with your goals.
AnonThank you Sir, I appreciate your response. You’re right about estrogen sensitivity. I feel like my last year’s results of 558 ng/dL of test was a little low, and potential higher estrogen might be the reason why I have such a difficult time losing subcutaneous fat in my abdomen and legs.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkJamesClapperWell thought out !
If I could go back I would do Test C over E. I liked the slightly longer ester with a kick start.
As for the Adex , try E2D's or E3D's . Remember you need to look at the half life of your AI.
Protein and food look great!
Pct strong , might be overkill to do 100mgs of Clomid for BOTH week 1 and 2. You could just do week 1 for Test only cycle.
Good luck , be safe!
Standard cookie cutter PCT is what he has. Might need less, might need more. It’s better to err on the side of caution.
JamesClapperI agree...its better to be cautious. I myself was always afraid of clomid vision issues I heard of. So never went over a week at 100mgs/day
Great to see you've put some solid hours into researching mate. +2 for that.
Can you upload a self photo? Then we can really see where you're at. There's lots that we could help you with but it would be great to see what we are working with.
AnonYes Sir. I took a front and back photo last night, just trying to figure out how to upload them to this thread. I didn’t see where to attach photos when originally writing this.
Top right arrow, submit, picture..
Follow the rest
AnonI think I finally got it figured out. The pictures didn't pop up on this thread, but they're on my profile now at least. For those that have replied so far, thank you for your responses. My intent before posting anything was to do as much research as possible, so I appreciate your patience with me and supporting the research I have found so far. I want to make sure I get as much figured out as possible before jumping in, in order to eliminate as many mistakes as possible.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkYour plan looks solid.
For PCT, I stick with the standard (?) protocol for a total of 4 weeks but not started till 2 weeks after my last injection: Clomid--100/100/50/50; Nolva--40/40/20/20. I have never used HCG, although I am sure some guys would say it is necessary.
Edit: I would personally make the suggestion to stay natural as long as possible. To me it looks like you could gain some more weight naturally. Also, your cutting diet looks good. If you were to take a Test only cycle and increase the carbs and protein, I do not see why your diet would not work.