+ 9 Running a 19-nor
What's up guys,
I'm going to give MY opinion and run down and tips on jos to successfully run a 19nor sucessfully. There's a lot of new people asking if they should run deca, tren and rarely ment and when i read what their proposed cycle is it makes me want to facepalm a knife lol. now by no means am i experienced in running a 19 nor because i've only ran one and it was tren. i had a really good experience with it so here are a few tips you could probably use to ensure your next run will be smooth like mine.
-before i start. i just saw another thread. some dude jumped into tren after running 1 cycle of 250mg test e because his good buddy in the gym told him tren is the way to go. LOLLL. noobs like that please read this posts. this post isn't meant for you. u have zero business even knowing what tren is at 1 cycle in lol. this is for the intermediate guy looking to make the next jump. thanks for understanding. no disrespect to the beginners. i just actually care about health and safety. as many many MANY others on here do
1) first thing i recommend is to make sure you're ready to run a 19nor. research research as much as you can and when you think you've got it down, research some more. it took me 6 months of studies before i decided to run tren. always make sure your diet and training and perfect and down and intertwine together with your goals and MAKE SURE YOURE AT LEAST 5 cycles deep before even thinking about running a 19. if ur a beginner forget it. this post is meant for someone who's ready for it after successfully safe few cycles (i prefer 5 when someone asks my advice in the gym).
2) less is more!!!!!!!! holy fuck i see posts here running deca or tren @ 500mg a week for a first time. LOL!! i ran my first time tren at 250 for the first five weeks and finished at 300 for the rest of the 7 weeks. great cycle too. didn't think i'd see much but in the end it really worked. i recommend 200-250 for a first timer running tren and i won't chime in for deca because i haven't ran it but i would recommend 300-400 for what i've read from many many many posts on running deca safely for a first time.
3) get blood work done before and in the middle. don't be cheap. this should probably be #1 on the list but this goes for any cycle. but especially for these types. get these tests done or throw ur vials in the trash.
4) make sure you have your AI and EITHER CABER OR PRAMI ON HAND!!!!! and hcg!! tren shuts you down hard. i always liked normal sized balls instead of them being shrunk up inside you. i used 250mcg weekly only it. Listen i know there's slot of debate on this but trust me. running caber won't kill you and i know if your estro is in check you shouldn't run into prolactin issues but why risk it? i had super high estro at first. if i never got bloods don't i wouldn't know how high it is. i suggest run caber at first!!! do ur research on hiw much. the norm is .25mg twice a week. you'll never have tren or deca dick!! i've never had such crazier boners on cycle and i was expecting no libido on tren but boy was i wrong. trust me on this. better be safe than sorry. anything can happen on cycle. don't risk it. just run the damn caber.
5) run test the same as your tren/deca. again there's a million different sides on this. i ran my test exactly the same as my tren. except when i bumped to 300 for tren i kept my test at 250. 50mg diff is ok. i didn't have night sweats. i didn't have crazy rage issues. none of it. i've been myself. except aggression was a bit higher. but nothing else like the crazy things i've read about what tren causes. forget all the crazy high test dosages. forget all the crazy high tren dosages. first timers trust me on that 250/250 and POSSIBLY 300 if ur stubborn like me and think 50 will make a huge difference. i didn't really see a big difference.
6) most importantly run your pct. i know this is for the intermediate user looking to become advanced by running a 19nor so i hope you'd have ur pct figured out by now.
these are just my basic 19nor tips on how to run it. trust me i'm not a pro. but the crazy high dosages i see on this site by noobs is just crazy af. really no reason for it. rarely do i ever see caber being mentioned on there either for proposed cycle. be smart, be safe. don't let someone fool you into taking crazy ass dosages or have someone throw you into the arena of being a gunea pig with ur own body. you never know what's going to happen. i expected to be a raged out freak on tren. i have anger problems. didn't hit me at all. my point is you just never know. i might have missed some stuff. i just tried to touch on things i feel important. i'm sure there's things i missed and whoever reads it feel free to chime in and add!! hopefully noobs will read this who's never ran these sort of cycles before and it helps them out. i've received a lot of help during my tren cycle. i posted bloods asking all sorts of shit and everyone's helped me. hopefully i can try and relay some of the things i learned. thanks for reading i hope someone picked up at least one thing or learned something new!!
once again i'm not a pro!!! there will be things i've missed. i'm just trying to help out here and bringing back low doses. i've always ran all my doses really low and people can argue i have great genetics on my side but it's bs. clean diet and hard training with moderate and safe aas use will bring you whenever you want to be!! unless you want to go pro full body building. well then, may the 4-5 grams of oils be on your side:)
peace all
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thenatty11What are your thoughts on the 2:1 test:tren ratio. I've heard that there it can reduce tren sides but is there any truth to that?
It's utter nonsense in terms of both of the compounds exertion of influence on androgen receptors. That is not to say that A ratio could not be calculated to account for binding affinities.
http://chemistry.tutorvista.com/inorganic-chemistry/binding-affinity.html?view=simple
In terms of sides; dose mgs, ester(s) and duration all matter re: effects and side effects. Another big factor is the individual in terms of how the substances are metabolised and variation of effects/sides as well as perceived benefits/effects/sides
srt8calidamn i just wanna thank everyone for being peaceful, polite and calm and chipping in their own advices and finding flaws in this thread. I LOVE IT!!! great job to everyone pretty sure i + you all for a job well deserved on the civilness
Advice on deca when you havnt ran it. Do not like.
srt8calii steered more towards tren i thought
For sure. I used deca on my 3rd cycle and tren on my 5th would use tren again though. I do agree that less is more, important for first time users to understand that. Ive tried high doses in the past but the sides effects ruin workouts, sleep and diet, ultimatly ruining a whole cycle.
srt8calii agree,
based on heavy research i have ruled deca out of the question for me to try and high doses will def ruin you so always better be safe than sorry
+2 for the calmest 19nor convo in history!
LOL
Rustyhookerpondering the revolution lol!
Cant really knock dudes efforts. Lower doses with warnings to have ai/caber on hand as/if needed and decided by bloods week 5.
Only thing I'd change is with tren, I'd use short esters first just so I'm not stuck for 2 or more weeks on clearance.
And imo, be proactive with pct. With a long ester or long nor run, hcg plus pharma or proven top shelf chems. Longer pct too if needed.
Good forum duder!
Vive la revolution lol
RustyhookerHaha!!
srt8calithanks bro! appreciate the support and agree with short eaters first. +
srt8calilmao!!!
srt8calithanks everyone for their inputs. great advice indeed!! appreciate everyone who chimed in. + for everyone haha
Thanks for the write up. I appreciate you taking the time to do so. Like the guys said below some of this might be blanket statments and what works for you might not for me. But hopefully no one will jump into a 19nor head 1st but people will. We know this so the more info that is put there. (Good info) i feel. The better. Ideally a new user would read this and think maybe I need to research what caber is and how to use it then come to the conclusion he neess to take as needed or what fits his needs. Obviously there are idiots out there who just see the good side of what steroids can do and don't think about the negatives. So any information, as long as it's not harmful or blatantly wrong. I believe is beneficial to the AAS community. Ultimately it is up to us as individuals to build our own protocol based on solid information and experiences of those who went before us.
Good write up man. Just tough throwing blanket statements out because they worked for you. I have had my prolactin elevated while estro in check. Everyone is different I have crashed both as well and it isn't pleasant to say the least. I agree with what others here have posted best to save the caber for problems that arise. Definitely good you hit on the less is more topic that is prolly the biggest take home from this along with getting blood work done regularly. Also I have less sides running test as a trt type dose while on a 19-nor. So everyone is different but all good info here. Anyone who is going to experiment with a 19-nor needs to research and pay attention to their body on other compounds to know how you react and form your own conclusion don't follow anyone else's cookie cutter style routine. Hope you all have a good day!
Agreed, and a solid post. +
I think it's also important to note that you've had elevated prolactin while estro was in check. I think the fact that this can and does happen to some people has been starting to get lost recently. As you said, and as I and many others have said a million times, we're all different. So while "e2 in check = prolactin in check" may be generally true for 50% or more of people, there are still some that it does not apply to, and we need to be prepared if we are one of those people, or if we suddenly turn into one of those people even though we weren't before.
I think another take home from this should be because we're all different, aside from being prepared with all necessary ancillaries on hand and to use as/if needed, confirmed by bloods, is that it shouldn't be "X" number of cycles under your belt before you try a 19-nor. Whether it takes 3,4,5 or 12 cycles, I think it should be when you have enough experience that you know your body inside and out (and we must be honest with ourselves in this self evaluation, because failure to do so can be very detrimental), so we can get a jump on things based on feel and knowledge of one's self. What sides you're prone to, what signs your own body shows when e2 is high/low, does test alone raise your prolactin (this can happen!), etc. (That being said, I don't care who you are, no one is going to have this understanding of their body based off of 1 or 2 cycles...)
Bloodwork every 4-6 weeks is incredibly important, but not enough in this situation. It's also learning and knowing how you've felt and how your body reacted when certain hormones were at certain levels from previous bloods/cycles so you are better prepared in what to look for. That will help guide us in between blood work, and allow the bloods to confirm and/or help tweak how we handled ourselves in-between testing.
Adding a 19-nor will bring on a whole new set of learning experiences, and there's no way to know how you'll react to them before you try them. But no one should add that layer of complexity to a cycle before they are absolutely fucking confident that they know their body well enough when the 19-nor is not present, so they at least have a better idea of what to be prepared for and what to look out for.
Good stuff, especially about not adding another layer of complexity before you know your body 100% . Thats key to using anything responsibly , I believe. Sliw and steady. Learn your body. Dont jump into the deep end not knowing how to float.
fuckin A.
"run test the same as your tren/deca"
fine that it works by you mate but a lot guys get massive probs when they do this.
I remember the great topic from giardap, very detailed:
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/19-nor-prolactindeca-t...
Low dose approach is a great thought. Would be great if more thought like that so kudos on that one fella.
The advice on medicines needs attention... if a young man comes in here and reads this and takes caber from the get go he is actually very likely to crash his prl which can lead to erectile dysfunction. Caber is a harsh medication with many sides, read the pamphlet brosef. There are several mechanisms involved with ED that can cause ED in their own right, but if you combine a couple you're shagged (no pun intended), so with really low or crashed prl and very low estrogen.... it's then pretty much guaranteed you will encounter a libido or ED issue, regardless of test/androgen action
I will respectfully disagree on running caber. It should not be taken unless it's needed. If your estrogen is in check, your prolactin will be (most cases)
Bloods mid way will say if it's needed.
srt8calipersonally i wouldn't risk it. everyone's different. caber is pretty mild
I guess to each their own, but I'd rather not take something that can treat Parkinson's disease if it wasn't necessary
It's the fact that it's been shown to fuck up your heart that worries me. I'm in the take it only as needed camp. You'll never know if you actually need It if you take it from the jump everytime. Definitely have it on hand, but like you I've never needed it out of all the npp/deca and tren cycles I've ran. We're lucky, some people do need it all cycle long. Hell I even know some people who even with caber and an ai still get deca dick. I'd stick to prami to if possible, this shit by itself is already bad enough for ones heart, rather not throw another drug into the mix that's also bad for your heart. You just gotta take it slow with prami.
Damn I didn't know that. Definitely happy I don't need it now!
That's not the half of it man
It's a harsh fkn drug
Valuable when needed but will fk ur chi up when taken but not needed
srt8calii should check my prolac asap then. i took it since day one. guess i got lucky. never had soft dick issue lol
srt8caliLOL touché bro! i'd also not risk not taking something that can make my dick die for a few months lol
I've never had that problem and I've never taken caber haha
Pop some blue steel ha
Also, caber treats acromegaly.
Also restless leg syndrome
srt8calireally? interesting.
maybe i need to do some more research on if caber is actually needed. but with me i'm always wary of my estro as it shoots up really high really fast and the "pharm grade AI" i get i never really know if it's pharm or not. i was taking 25mg ed of exem and it still didn't kill my estro lol
Damn we're opposites, I barely get any estro sides haha. I actually tried caber one time and it made me feel like garbage, actually made it impossible for me to get a boner, which apparently is a side of crashed prolactin. So it really does boil down to the individual
I mean, it's working for you, looking like a Greek statue and shit haha
It has certain actions as a da which it is safe to say are a given, which is why it is an approved drug. But regarding ED; could we give a blanket guarantee to first timers that they will not end up with ED by crashing their prolactin? Nope
Personal experience doesn't always translate to universally applicable advice. It's just 1 part of the picture really but yes an important part
Isn't cabargoline a dopamine agonist ? And that it works like nolvadex in respects to blocking the action of the hormone and not getting rid of the hormone like exemastain. So how could you crash your prolactin with it? It would be like crashing your estro with nolvadex.
No not at all.
DopamIne Agonist not prolactin antagonist
It bumps dopamine which in turn inhibits prolactin secretion
It exerts it's effects on prolactin indirectly
I see.
srt8caligood point,
that's what i had in mind. didn't think caber crashed prolc levels either
srt8calisorry for the typos/grammar i wrote this on my phone and my auto correct is retarded lol