Realistic goals as far as keeping gains made on cycle
So when discusssing AAS on forums, or at the gym the question inevitably arises, especially from an AAS naive person, "how much muscle will I keep after the cycle is over". Well it's not an easy answer due primarily to the huge amount of variables involved such as did you get a baseline LBM test, did you do a proper pct and by proper I mean all genuine pharma products, was your gear accurately dosed, your diet, the ester and specific drugs you were taking, I mean I could go on. You may say "yeah I know all of this already", but do you? I'm 47 and I have completed a total of 5 cycles of bascially test and an oral like anavar as a finisher.
What I have noticed is that number 1, my cycles tend to be longer...16-18 weeks but I only do one a year. If I was going to the gym at least 4 and preferably 5x/wk during the cycle, eating properly, and getting adequate rest, I can expect to keep what training in a gym for 16-18 weeks 5x per week would give me naturally. Not at Week 18, mind you....I will likely be about 10-20 lbs heavier or more at Week 18, but I'm hell bent on keeping as much as possible, post pct. In general expect to keep the amount of real muscle you would make after training hard for 16 to 18 weeks....about 5-8 lbs of solid lean muscle and maybe some more or less depending. I would hope I can gain 5 lbs of muscle after training hard for 16-18 weeks!!! During cycle my weight could fluctuate a bit depending on how much I am eating, how much water I'm holding, and how intense my woirkouts are, but this has generally been my experience. However, there are certain MUST's which MUST be done to keep any of the weight. It starts with a proper pct and by proper I mean all legit pharma. period. You also must continue to work out. This is probably the one thing I have found that most are guilty of, at some point. Taking too much time off from working out because you're weak minded post cycle to go to the gym when you really must be to keep the natty test flowing and to keep the gains.
It may seem really easy, but given the amount of variables and human nature, most just "deflate" after a cycle, don't eat well, don't do a proper pct, and unbelievably I would wager the more guys than you think do not continue to work out in between cycles. I have seen it first hand and read it on here, and it pisses me off to no end. How could you work that hard just to keep 2-3 lbs of hard earned lean muscle, if that? There's ways of keeping more like 10-15 lbs when all is said and done but again it's very individualistic and somewhere around 5-10 lbs is considered reasonable
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The only critique I have about your hypothesis is the amount of muscle one can retain after cycling. A while back, someone posted some research from a credible research source that I see a lot of different studies from, that concluded that someone who has cycled (whether once or for some certain period of time, I can't recall off the top of my head) could maintain a certain level of muscle mass above what they would be able to achieve without ever having taken steroids. How much and what level over and above their genetic potential they could maintain wasn't a huge number, but statistically enough to conclude that it could be done. However, I think your claim that keeping 5-10 lbs after every cycle if cycling once per year is unattainable over the long haul. Otherwise, the average guy who follows a diligent protocol inside and outside the gym would be a pro caliber bodybuilder after 6-10 years, while running only one cycle per year. That's just not the case in reality. So while I agree that some level of muscle mass can be retained, there's a relatively low ceiling as to how much you'll be able to ultimately maintain if you're only running one cycle year.
a lot of guys i see at my gym stop training as hard, their diet goes to shit, and they dont pct properly and they are surprised when they deflate. steroids are only a part of the puzzle. if you dont live the lifestyle all the way then dont be suprised when you dont look like your a bodybuilder.
there are of course a lot of factors that go into all of this, but in general what i listed above are three very common things that i see hinder peoples ability to keep as much mass as possible. when your off gear you have to rely on the basics, diet and hard training. people want an easy way out, no one wants to work for it anymore. to anyone who has been around long enough it becomes obvious who works for it and who doesnt.
rocketballzI pretty much couldn't agree more
I see it all too well at my gym, young kids that are huge in the summer and by the time christmas rolls around they have lost more then half of their gains and not to fat either, they look like they stopped eating and training like they did on cycle. The longer you train and gain muscle it becomes harder and harder to gain more. The body can only adapt so much. Look at the olympia, you never saw dorian yates get more then 40 pounds over his max and each year he was always within 20 pounds.
This is why it's incredibly important to train naturally for a while before using gear. Ofcourse to build a base of muscle,strength, good dietary habits, learn your body and what type of diets and training it responds best to so when you to go on cycle you know this and you can milk the cycle for all it's worth. But equally important is to develop that love for training so when you come off cycle it doesn't matter, your first love is training so not much has changed. Vs the guys who start juicing basically the day they start training, they start off with this superhuman gains and that's all they know, then they come off and they've never trained naturally before and they get bored because the rate of muscle growth and strength is so much slower so they quit training. I've seen it so many times. I started training natty and loved it, just love being in the gym on gear or not. I'm glad I was freaked out about gear for a long time so I never tried it until I put on about 50lbs naturally (not all muscle of course) but I learned how to eat to grow, how to train. What my body responds best to training wise ( except my lagging chest still haven't figured that out all these years later). But if you don't like to train naturally you have no business starting gear cause as soon as you come off you're gonna stop training.
rocketballzWhat up Game? Very true. I'm 47 now but played football in hs and college...D3...and have never really looked back. I didn;t start cycling until 42 because I figured at that point it was too much of an uphill battle, working out and on my physique, that I took baby steps into AAS. I do have a job, a life, two kids and a wife so life is busy, which is the worst excuse of all. So, I work out early instead and that's helped keep it alive in me this long.
There is a natural limit to how much muscle you can keep. And honestly, if you were truly cycling half the time and then going off and relying on your natural test for hslf the time you aren't going to get to 250lb ripped. Im 5'9", and 170lb and shredded would be diificult to reach and maintain naturally even if I cycled snd got to 200lb ripped--you will eventually drop back to your natty level of muscle. You're natty test levels just aren't high enough to maintain that amount of mass and you will lose muscle regardless of what you eat. Now if you are trt and you push your test levels to the upper limit during "off" time then you can gain and retain more. Of course, there are those who fall outside ofvthis average and can hold more mass. Google some old massive bodybuilders and look how small they got after going off all of that gear...it's amazing. They look like regular guys ( goigle flex wheeler and kevin levrone before and after) .
Here is a link that estimates the amount of natty muscle mass someone could hold.
http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain-naturally/
I think the answer is more complicated than just simply yes or no or giving an answer on how to do it. It's going to factor down to so many different variables. Your diet has to be on point afterwards, your PCT has to be on point after, your training needs to be the same if not harder when you're done.
Then of course you have another big area that comes in the play. People forget to even think about this when it comes down to how much weight they can keep. What compounds will you be running and at what dosages? Some compounds are known for giving you "cleaner" gains than others like primo, EQ, low dose Deca or Tbol. I've yet to meet anyone that runs thier test at 1000 mg, Deca at 750 mg and then six weeks of dbol and keep half their gains for example. But when I ran test 375mg and Deca 250mg I managed to keep 75% of my gains if not more.
What dosages and compounds do you plan on running? How is your blood work been looking on cycle and after cycle?
rocketballzI have cycled 5 times; all test e/c only up to 600 mgs/wk for 16-18 wks once a year, plus an oral for the last month, like var and I have recovered from each one. I always test my blood levels 4 or 5 moinths post pct because of my age. Latest one came in at TT = 603, LH was 7.5 (which I believe is slightly elevated still after 5 months of nothing, and my FSH was at like 3.1, free test was low average. Never ran a 19 nor and don't plan on it. Those are the ones that put you on trt for life and I want to avoid that as much as possible. Basically what I was saying that regardles of the steroids you WILL keep 5-10 lbs on average, if your post aas plan is solid, and for me that means a 10 day hcg blast while waiting to start pharma only pct as well as some Ostarine at 20mgs/day, which I believe kept the crash off and the gains on. Only used it for 2 weeks during pct. Overall, after working out harde for 12 weeks you are bound to make and keep some muscle, just not as much as you can when ur juicing