+ 7 A troubling trend here at eroids
I've been noticing a troubling trend lately that a sr member opened my eyes to. Im not very good with the metric system so I see alot of posts with the weight in kg and I really don't know how much the individual weighs. What I've been seeing though weather its in kg or lb looks like this.
Hi im 5'10 85 kgs and 9%bf 38yrs old ive ran 3 cycles this will be my 4th. My cycle will be
Test e 750mgs
Decca 500mgs
Tren a 500mgs
They will say there going to run for 12-20wks.
This is just an example not an actual post I've seen.
I usually assume that he is really around 12% bf unless there is a pic. Also that 85kgs means he has a great build on him since this is his 4th cycle.
Now I would usually start with telling them they shouldn't run 2 nor 19 in the same cycle they probably shouldn't even be running tren. So on and so forth. The sr member opened my eyes to the fact that all these posts I've been seeing lately say they have ran multiple cycles already. The member still hasn't even topped 200lbs yet. This is what troubles me if he has ran 3 cycles already and hasn't topped 200lbs we need to shut him down and tell him he needs to stop running gear and get over 200lbs natty before he starts throwing compounds in the mix. I don't believe that reaching 200lbs is a difficult task natty. We don't give cycle advice to under 25. I and others I have spoken to also believe that we need to start pushing the fact that someone that wants to run gear should be around 200lbs before adding in compounds. I know im going to hear about the hard gainers and how they can't get to 200lbs natty. Thats bs and I don't want to hear it. There are plunty of diet and training forums that if they put in the work will get them up to 200lbs.
So I won't give cycle advice or tell someone that they can start running gear any longer to any member who isn't atleast 195lbs natty. I hope that after reading this all the guys that always give out great cycle advice will realize the same thing I have that a very high percentage of the members asking about there cycles and saying that they have ran multiple cycles already haven't put in the work that they could and should have to start or keep running gear.
Thanks for your time
Bigmurph
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Right what the fuck I was wondering why I got negged that is correct info
bigmurphMuch appreciated i actually googled it and had it converted yesterday for the first time.
Yeah things were all crazy for me when I came to the states 10 years ago. We learned about it but I never used it so it was like an after thought to me. Lmao no prob big Murph
I'm totally agree. You talk about simple things, which is obvious to anyone.
One of my friends was around 220lbs before his first cycle, he used to attend the gym around 10 years.
bigmurphGlad you are on board brother i don't think its a crazy goal for anyone
It's a touchy subject and can go both ways. I know shorter guys right at the 200 lb mark or a little under that are freaky and if they stand next to a taller guy they make them look dumb. Now when a guy says he's not using to be big but all his compounds scream differently and he's talking about putting on size etc etc it makes me cringe. Many guys can't fathom the fact that they are running in circles and abusing drugs thinking that the drugs are the answer. When one cycle doesn't work they up the dose, then they add in more compounds and it keeps on going.
Now comparing average guys with average genetics to great body builders and pros , guys who were pioneers is ignorant. Two totally different body structures , totally genetics make ups , muscle tie ins , limb length and muscle belly. Let alone the knowledge of dieting lol. Soo comparing the two is moot at best.
I see alot of guys with unrealistic goals and not enough time put in , along with not near enough nutritional knowledge. Yet thinking gear is the answer.
Then I see guys with goals easily obtainable without drug use. But, they have once again not put the time in and know fuck all about nutrition and eating to obtain their goals and then continuing to eat to sustain their goals after they are done cycling. So then they think if they stay on they will keep it.
Way too many guys here and in person don't train near as hard as they should and don't know proper technique and form let alone have put in the time. They put half assed effort into their "diet" and miss meals and fuck it up every weekend. They don't know when to eat , or the optimal nutrition to gain and sustain. They lift with their ego to impress. An don't know the first thing about mind muscle connection.
Many guys need to put the years in , need to train specifically for their goal, need to put the work in and figure out their nutrition to meet their mark and continue to eat to sustain their gains. More muscle=more food. Then when they've nailed that for a few years make the jump to drugs as drugs are made to finish a physique not be the concrete used to build it. Your talking about 5% if that of the lifestyle. Christ I know natural guys I used to compete with back before I used who would blow half the guys here and in day to day life. But, their life revolves around food and the gym.
But its easier to obtain gear , create a cycle and run it. Comes down to pure fucking laziness and ignorance.
That's dead on bro. I was just afraid when I saw this post that there are a lot of members here that sit in the shadows that have run cycle after cycle and have gotten nowhere that would fly off the handle at the idea that some of us vets want to stop supporting steroid use on guys with no muscle base or frame. And, worse, we are kinda looking at a 200 lb. natty base as a starting point for many as they enhance their physiques with gear. You have always said that steroids don't get you in shape. And, moreover, you said that you should look like you are on gear before you actually are. That's the plain truth for sure.
There are a lot of members here that run gear that should take a very long look at themselves, and they're not just in the shadows either. There are guys that dish out advice regularly in that category, therein we can find some irony.
You and I have discussed this on pm before, so you know I entirely support the "build a solid base first" approach. I do, however, wonder how many people fit into the category of using steroids way too prematurely in our eyes, purely to build a physique in the first place. These days, I think that's a pretty high percentage. I often hear guys in gyms, (not just youngsters either), talking about their use of gear and I look at them and think "really? You're on gear looking like that?". i know I built my base well because people assumed I was on gear before I ever touched the stuff. That mindset is largely gone.
This is a huge problem and it's something that I personally have done. I stayed the shit way way way to premature and at a very young age and the gains were unstable to say the least. The gains I make now are unstable as fuck my weight fluctuates so much and all it takes it for me to get "lazy" is what I call it for a very brief amount of time and I swear I can watch myself shrink it's nuts man. I'm going back to that basics currently well aside from my shoulder fucking up on me so that I can build a sustainable foundation at 195 to 205 pounds. I've been over 220 1 time in my life and I dropped back down to 190 like it was nothing. That's what Alot of people don't understand the gains don't come from a vial they come from every other aspect of the sport
That's because they don't put the effort into eating right and eating every 3 hours. They don't live the life style. They only do it a small percentage of the time. They think they take gear there just going to poof be this guy out of a magazine...
That seems to be the case. As we both know, however, mindsets may change and it may now be "cool" to be pinning gear at 170 lbs., 18% BF. That may be the 'in" thing to do among young people in the gym today, but, it's not going to change the nature of how steroids work. These guys may think they are going to use anabolics to move from an untrained condition to a trained condition with a decent muscle base through the application of hormone drug products alone but that will NEVER be the case.
That said, those of us that "know better" are not serving the interests of these guys in any way by encouraging them and supporting them in a hopeless endeavor while they put their health at risk in the process.
I am going to stop supporting that and I would be delighted if the rest of the board did as well. It serves no good purpose.
Agreed. Educating the ignorant has become the essence of this steroid review site. I learn something new at Eroids everday. It's always a great feeling to have receptive individuals that are willing to listen, understand, comprehend and apply that new knowledge to their life.
bigmurphYou just said it best I thought gearhead had it right on the nail but thats it. I just can't see 200lbs being a crazy natty goal. I completely understand that there are one offs and weight regulated athletes. Once you get passed that though almost everyone else should be able to hit 200lbs without any compounds.
I couldn't believe how many guys I was helping that were only 180lbs. The worst part they had ran 2-3 cycles and still haven't topped 200lbs.
This is exactly it though you said it best
Quote taken from tonytulo
But its easier to obtain gear , create a cycle and run it. Comes down to pure fucking laziness and ignorance.
I'm lost anyone know how I get to Sesame Street ??
bigmurphI love the pics you come up with brother
Yea, we need a good laugh now and again.
StevebIt wasn't really funny
Got to laugh sometimes
bigmurphWe always do and you and ed also Richard always get me laughing
bigmurphI believe that you take a right at the blue guy in the garbage can. Lol
Thanks brother
Weight it's not an accurate measurement of how good or bad that persons diet/workout has been, can't rate based on weight alone. There is many people I know under 200 pounds that look impressive using just a small amount or no gear. Frank Zane was Mr O at only 190 with a physique that until this day it's one of the most desirable physiques of all time, with your logic, he shouldn't be even using gear at the time?!?!
DonJuanSSJ4I agree. Arnold competed at 197lbs for the Mr. Olympia. It says it right here in my Book of Champions by Joe Weben which I got at the 2006 Mr. Olympia expo. It has all their workouts and interviews it's pretty cool.
Bro, with all the respect that is due to Frank Zane who was certainly a championship bodybuilder in his day, Frank Zane wouldn't even place in a local show today bro. Not in bodybuilding for sure. Maybe in the new men's physique category, perhaps.
By that logic though, neither would arnold
bigmurphAt competition time sure they were under 200lb at 4-5% bf but while training they are all above 200lbs
Arnold didnt compete under 200
bigmurphI thought thats what you were saying. I know he is a tall guy so I figured he was above 200lbs even when competing. With Arnold anything was possible.
Do you agree that 200lbs isn't a crazy natty goal though?
I do agree that the abuse is way out of hand, but not sure anything can be done about it. You don't know who you're dealing with anyway. It's easy to lie on stats, a little more difficult with a pic but obviously not impossible. We see bogus pics often, but I think pics are the only real way. It should be based on how someone looks; muscle mass, bone structure, shoulder width, height, etc. You can't really put all of that into an all encompassing weight category.
Disclaimer: none of my comments are intended for self justification, just so you know. As I said below, I'm under no delusions about myself and where I'm at. I will never be a competitive bodybuilder but I do enjoy working out. I don't come here for the steroid conversations anymore. I almost never comment on these ludicrous post we see and I never give advice. I don't ask for it either, at least as far as steriods are concerned. And why should you even comment to the stupidity anyway. Everything is available to read. If they are too stupid and lazy to do some reasesrch, then they are too stupid and lazy to be doing aas. I'm not talking about experienced people asking opinions from experienced people, but I don't see them making posts about it. They probably keep it in PM where it should be.
I've studied every drug and their combinations throughout the years, and I've come to one conclusion. What's the point? If you're not competitive, why take all that shit? That's my opinion regarding myself. As far as everyone else is concerned, not really my business. I've learned that you can advise many people, but few will listen, and even fewer act.
No, I was just saying Arnold wouldn't place either. Read my comment below.
I think weight probably isn't the real issue. There are plenty of 200# people walking around who don't lift, and more than plenty on here who don't even look like they lift, but are very free with the "advice". I understand that life provides us occasionally with a dan duchaine or a william llewellyn, but that's not the case here.
Arnold and Lou Ferrigno had way more mass than Zane did. Would Arnold stand on an Olympia stage today with his best physique from the 1970's? I dunno. He might qualify for the show, but he definitely would not place.
TryHarder007Bet you top 8 by arnold. Reason? Genetics, work ethic, his drive to want to win. Back then they had really no coaches, imagine him with aceto, Matt Jansen, porter, or even if he went to train at oxygen gym in the middle East. Second, drugs! I believe we have made such big advancements in drugs that would make a huge difference for arnold when he always trained and ate like crazy. Training science has improved too.
Now he wouldn't beat Phil, but he would be top 8 IMO. With what we have now I think he would be top 8. But id love to get your response to this also:)
That's all I'm saying. Could they hang today, knowing what the requirements are? Probably. Lou came out of retirement in the early 90s and competed at around 300#. Supposedly the first guy to hit the stage prepped at 300 with a 60" chest. Don't know if that's true or not, but he was a monster.
As far as zane is concerned though, he won the O in 77, 78, and 79. He competed at 185 and hovered around 200 in the off season. I don't think I've seen a single eroids members pic that would win the O in any year, so I don't think it fair to compare anybody on here to him, no matter what they weigh.
I dunno for sure of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if we DO in fact have members on the board that could stand next to Zane and be compared favorably.
I don't even remotely compare myself to any of the Olympia champions, but I would very much like to stand on an Olympia stage but I have to win a show first and I've gotten my ass kicked the last few times out. So, that would be my dream before I retire.
I don't mean any offense to you or anyone. There are thousands of members here who never participate and I'd bet there are some elite level competitors that pop in from time to time. What I mean is BB has evolved over time as well as expectations. There were many guys in zanes era that were way bigger and might have done better if they were competing a decade later. Put zane in a comp 10 yrs later and he wouldn't place. If you timewarped ronnie Coleman to '65, they would've been in awe becsuse of his size, but probably laughed him off the stage because of his huge gut. I'm talking current condition at the time. They probably could've adjusted to the expectation of the era. I continue to see people compare yesterday's bodybuilders with today and I don't think it's a proper assessment. I don't think you can swap bodybuilders from vastly different eras and get the same results. In other words, today's mr O wouldn't win in 1970, and vice versa. We just have to appreciate the evolution of the sport and pay respect to the guys that came before, because bodybuilding, as well as all sports, wouldn't be were it is today if it weren't for those guys. I hope I'm making sense.
As far as you are concerned, or anyone else on here who is SERIOUS about BB, my sincerest apologies. My comment was not directed at you the way it may have sounded, and I would do nothing to take away from all of the hard work and sacrifice that you guys put in. I am impressed at the dedication and sheer will that is applied day after day, year after year, and I can also understand the disappointment. I am under no delusion that I will ever be a bodybuilder, but I intently study the actions and mindset of successful people from every avenue, and attempt to apply those principals to certain areas of my life. Thank you for the inspiration, and I truly hope that you achieve your dreams. Good luck bro.
Exactly my point, today "Standards" are simply out of proportion in my opinion. There was no HGH no Slin back in the day either which in my opinion helped to keep a physique that others can think it's achievable "natural". Then again, a lot of people have different opinions & different "standards" on how they wanna look.
bigmurphI agree and I like the old look better. This juiced up look of so called mass monsters im not a fan of. I also have to agree that there are guys that want to be really cut and lean they don't want to blow up bulking over and over. I don't see any problem with that if thats your goal but when your goal is to get big and you just keep running high doses over and over not ever getting past 200lb something is wrong. Especially when they have no training experience at all there 165lb and they automatically before even building a base start inj. Thats where I believe alot of what I have seen lately is coming from. Then they put up posts and they believe because of there so called experience of running prior cycles that its ok for them to keep going. These are the guys I want to let know that gear is not ready for you and your not ready for gear.
We just have different tastes bro. I like the "freaky" look of today way more. The ultra massive dense and powerful look. Biceps veins the size of a garden hose. It took me over 10 years of sweat to get my monster card. Proud of it. LOL
bigmurphI bet and congrats
I still believe that the Arnold and como I believe his name was are the great builds nothing but respect to all that mass though alot of hardwork and dedication to get there.
I don't have it in me to take it that far
Nonsense my man. You need to train in a gym with more "atmosphere." A real hardcore dungeon place with the right members. You will feed off the elite guys training. You'll get an adrenaline rush from it. You will be able to push harder than you ever thought possible.
bigmurphI agree i could but the better way to put it is my work schedule doesn't allow it. I work 7 days a week from oct to june then I work a normal 40hr wk during the summer. This is when I run my gear or just really put in hard work. The rest of the year even with 70hr+ work wk I still workout atleast 4x a wk. When I was young all I did was workout now it just doesn't fit the schedule. I let myself go ladt year bad im still pushing to clean up that mistake but im 50lb lighter and lost 7-8%bf depending on the calculator i use but that shows you dedicate a year and you can accomplish anything that your goals might be.
I understand bro. I had to start my own software company a ways back and get out of the corporate rat race so I could pursue bodybuilding. I am quite blessed that the business was successful. I have 3 partners and they are gracious in making room for my training schedule. But I think I still pull my weight in the business.
Bro, I think the point here is really that to grow and maintain muscle mass under 200 lbs. for an average height dude doesn't require any gear. None at all.
Now that gear can be ordered over the internet and delivered discretely to one's front door, everyone wants to play with steroids.
If a man has threatened his health by pinning gear and is still sitting below 200 lbs. that is a shame and it rises to the level of drug abuse. Because no gear is really safe.
All I can do as a responsible member of this community is not indulge the guy further or encourage him to start in the first place.
You should see some of the guys in my gym - can't even bench 315 and they are pinning gear? Covered with zits? Short of breath? Red in the face from high BP?
I've been giving gear advice on here for some time without really paying attention to just how skinny some of the guys running cycles really are. Shame on me. I'm done.
bigmurphThats exactly it +1
bigmurphBut the guys that say im running my 3rd or 4th cycle and haven't topped 200lbs I think that they need to stop running gear.
The exceptions are weight regulated athletes and a couple of one off cases.
Frank zane is a different situation competitors like him are trying to be as lean as possible. I bet when he isn't cutting for a competition he is probably well over 200lbs.
I think you have to take this on a case by case basis. Have a look here as an example:
https://www.eroids.com/cycle_logs/my-first-cycle.-test-only.
(Edit - the link won't work due to the . At the end, but you can find it from the title info).
Less than 200lbs, but solid. Doesnt meet your criteria though......
bigmurphThere with out a doubt will be one offs to everything.
The majority i have been seeing just are not putting in any work they just start running cycle after cycle.
To be honest that applies to a LOT of people here. That's modern day steroid use / abuse.
I looked at the link. I know that in the UK folk have manners that make us Americans look like hillbillies. Being raised as a lady or as a gentleman is the norm. That said, you're not softening up are you bro?? LOL
