+ 1 who's had success with test, mast, provi, and no ai?
Hey guys i remember viking preaching this cycle religiously and i remember lots of you guys having success with it. Last year i decided id give it a try. Lets just say i failed miserably and ended up having to use an ai. My nips puffed up, knots started forming, amd had erection issues. I had test 3 starting out at 750mg per week, mast p at 300mg per week, and provi amd 50mg per day. I dont normally run mis matched esters but i figured if i needed to up the mast to control the estrogen it would work faster and be easier to control. Ok so the high estrogen sides hit me around week 4 and i upped the mast to 500mg per week and seen no difference at all. Next thing i done was lower the test to 500mg per week, after a couple weeks still nothing. So my question is do you guys think my mast was bunk? Did i take the wrong approach? To those who have done this successfully, what kind of doses were you running? Has anyone used this method successfully with sust as your test base? Im all ears to any and all advice. Ive run a lot more complex cycles with less problems but im wanting to do a simple test cycle for the winter and would like to give this another shot.
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Masteron was created originally for women with breast cancer .... It didnt work so well so they don't use it. That should give anybody pause to think that mast isn't always going to control estrogen related issues.
Knew what it was created for but didn't know it was a fail, thanks for that tid bit of info grrl!
Nope I'm having to clear some up now...I'm even running mast p and Provi at a higher dose than most and still have to take 2 AI for estro and prolactin...
Im glad to know im not the only one! Ive heard everyone praise this cycle and have success without running an ai but never got it to work for me personally. I still love some mast test and provi, just not without an ai.
I tried it and got a lump for my troubles. It really isn't worth the risk. When you start feeling the sides start taking your AI.
I have never been able to not use an AI. Even at my trt dose.
However, when I use high test I can get away with about only 75% the usual AI I need with 50mg provide a day. Mast didn't affect my AI dosing really
Here is where the confusion can occure
the higher the estrogen level the easier it is to retain water = true but does not mean that someone who is dry automatically has low estrogen levels.
My first show I did masteron and proviron and was bone dry and striated even in the glutes but my gyno flared up more then ever during this precise cycle, worse case of gyno and in such a short period of time.
So you definitely need an AI especially if you are prone to...... relying on this cycle without is not a logical conclusion IMO
since then I have had the surgery so now any AI is only 2 weeks at a time because I am no longer concerned of gyno but thats another topic altogether,.
You have to realise that if you're the type that needs letro to control estro, you haven't got a chance in hell of getting away with using mast and provi to control it, it has nowhere near the effect of a purpose made AI.
I can run big test doses with no AI, but I've never had estro issues like you obviously have. The only test I have to watch a little is TNE etc, that can catch me out. The majority of people would find what you have to be the case. You've tried it, it didn't work, bin it and do it the way you know works for you.
I completely agree with you and rusty, i just wanted to discuss it and get some opinions from the elders of the tribe lol. Thanks chiming in cat!
RustyhookerSounds like either your body converts highly on Normal cycle or you may have mispinned. Mast prop doesn't have a weekly value. That alone is a problem.
What's your estro like on normal cycle?
Yes, I've done it several times with success BUT my body converts at different rate than yours, hence the bloods needed.
So use just enough mast in its preferred ester and season to control estro between 30-40? Tackling this with provi is even better at fine tuning the mast and test...
I think your right rusty. Ive never been able to control estrogen with adex or aromasin only letro. This cycle may never work for me. I havent had bloods done in a long time but thats about to change this go round. Just found out one of my old gym partners is a dr now and im going to have a talk with him about monitoring me throughout this.
RustyhookerYes, if you're one of the letro types then I'd suggest cycles driven towards low test. Meaning, try oils that are low or no estro problems. Test, eq, primo. Orals like anavar, tbol or winny. Avoid dbol or high test.
Anavar is highly anabolic. Really look into its use. I love eq and can run test low. It's long and slow but simple in many ways. Big foods and hardcore pumps. Cardio as needed for fat control.
Bold cyp...faster ester of eq. 1test which is a tweaked version of bold. Unique for sure and low test great. See makwa post on 1test.
Solid advice as always rusty! Ive really dialed back on the compounds i run. I'll never be on a stage and i was just wasting money and putting my body through hell. I had to take tren off the menu. Ive always handled tren with hardly any sides then the last time it really hit me hard. That shit had me thinking and acting crazy and almost ruined my relationship with my fiancee. Only time i use orals is on a cut because they kill my appetite. Ive never ran eq but ive definitely given it thought. Weren't you part of a closed group that ran an eq only cycle without test? If so how did that turn out?
RustyhookerYessir. My first run with eq was eq only. For me it was fine. Sex was marathon style, added great mass and dropped fat. But, if it causes you a shutdown sexual then test needs to be there or you'll be hitting prop rest of cycle. You said you're trt? If so, try trt doses test and 600 eq. It's a 16+ week cycle, boosts appetite, and rbc. Donate blood around week 8. Test bloods at week 5 so estro is 20-50. You know your trt protocol so that's a big help. Primobolan. ..I've not run it because it's damn expensive but it might be right up your alley. Trt test and good boom of primo.
What was ur very first pre cycle T level?
I believe u can get these three compounds to work for u and meet the goals u want. Like Rusty said its gonna take.bloodwork...and frequently...
I would start with short esters of test/mast first and low to mod doses with min dose of provi...do bloods and go from there..
I found a post by catalyst where viking had some input. He used 300mg per week of mast e.
First time bloods t level was in the 200's, that was about 6 years ago. Been on trt for a while now. Started out with dr prescribed but my dr left town, new dr was a dip shit and changed my script. That stupid guy really made a mess out of me! Then i had a spell where i didn't have insurance so i just took the trt over myself. Looking back its not the smartest decision ive ever made. Im really looking forward to the new dr since he personally know me and has dabbled in the sauce himself.
I remember that. Viking had his diet dialed in correctly and his doses were different...do a search and find his post...
Yeah im looking for it right now so i can post the link
I couldnt find it. He had an ai on hand tho cuz i remember it was mentioned...
Surely he didn't delete it when he left!?
I think its in cycle logs..if u get it..post it...i will do the same...
Im digging right now. I remember him talking about running over a gram of test with no ai.
I remember 200mg of something and 50mg of provi and then....see thats all i can remember..lol
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/gyno-experiment-...
Thank u sir..