+ 12 No levels/No Points A thoughtful approach to a new point system
Firstly, I am extremely proud to be a member of this site and will never be able fully repay BFG and all the members before me, however, I will always try to make this community better.
This post is concerning our karma system and members points. I believe karma is a great bonus and helps to get members involved, dont we all want to reach expert level (I sure do). However, after seeing how karma can be abused and manipulated, I believe its time for a different approach. Also keep in mind, no system will be bulletproof, people who want to abuse the system will always find a way to do so.
(Disclaimer) I am proud to be a level 3 member but I'm even prouder to celebrate my 3rd year on Eroids this fall. I am sure 95% of the members do not abuse their karma or its benefits.
My approach: No more points and levels as it currently exists. Instead under each avi will be 3 numbers which represent years as a member, reviews written and pics uploaded. So if a member is brand new under his/her avi would read
0 0 0
However in the case of a member who has been here for 4 years and has written 15 reviews and submitted 50 pics, the numbers under that avi would read
4 15 50
Good idea? Maybe or Maybe not. I came to this approach for a few reasons.
Years as a member (First point shown under avi). I believe time is a crucial element in being a member here. We need to be invested in order to understand the community. Years as a member is a number you cannot fake. The number is a accurate representation of your time as a member here on Eroids.
Reviews written (Second point value shown under an avi). Honestly, I believe this to be the most important of all the numbers. We can all purchase gear and get in on promos but how many of us know how to write a review that is concise, thoughtful and informative. Does the number(shown) of reviews written differentiate between a good and bad review? No. However, it is a number that shows a member took time to wrote a review of the products he/she has used.
Pics uploaded (Third number shown under avi). This number is a representation of the pics a member has uploaded. Again, this shows an investment within the community.
Would up voting still exist? Yes but you would earn no points for a thumbs up. Conversely, you would lose no points for a thumbs down.
How would we find trolls? MODS would tag trolls as they currently do.
I have a concern that a few people come here and within a few months (usually 8-12 months) these members have become level 3 or advanced members in a fairly short amount of time. My system of points would eliminate that problem. Upvoting would no longer be allowed to change a members' status level. Instead, members would be encouraged to write reviews and add pics. My approach would also eliminate the circles which occur at times, where members get together and upvote each others posts/comments/pics in order to achieve a higher karma point total.
Does my system has flaws? Probably, and feel free to contribute your thoughts/suggestions/opinions.
Is this system bulletproof against fraud? Not at all, but I think its a strong system.
I am no means attempting to say what were doing currently as far as points is wrong and/or bad. I just think like all things in life we need to tweak our system sightly.
Thanks for reading
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eryximachusI too have been a member for about 3 years, and have written a review after every order. I don't participate that frequently, and still haven't gotten to level 1. To me, it seems ludicrously time consuming to advance in the levels. Ah well.
It's not about how many levels you advance. It about giving back to the community. Nobody says you have to it just seems like the right thing to do. I use this site so I choose to give back by helping newbs and offering input on my experiences. It's my way of paying for using this site that has helped me so much. Whether it's a way to obtain gear or knowledge!
Interesting idea but I don't feel its really any better/different than the current system. No matter what system is in place to put a number under someone's name, that number will more often than not, be just that, a number.
Regardless of someone's "number" or "tag" its best to check out a user's profile. Skim through their forum contributions, reviews, pics....... and generate your own opinion on the user. Sometimes your opinion will coincide with their "number" and sometimes it will not.
If memory serves me, there was a time where there was a need to encourage people to post pics.
Maybe that process should be restructured. For example...
No thumbs up/down on any pictures posted.
3 points for posting lab results (encourages proper testing and helps rid unfounded g2g's)
2 points for posting self pics. (limit 1 set per cycle)
1 point for posting pics of gear (which should also coincide with a review)
IMO 0 points for posting gear pics PERIOD! half these guys got to level1 within a month between pics and buddy bumps
I thought of that but there might be value to identifying fakes/forgeries.
It's also why I think NO upvoting of any pic should be allowed. And to further slow the process, the gear should be tied to a review.
I don't have a problem with self pictures because it takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there. The up voting of gear pics get a little out of hand. Some of these guys purchase massive amounts of gear therefore lots of thumbs up. I think it's good to post them to let people know that sources are coming thorough, but maybe limit the number of up votes. Karma will always be a topic of discussion. I have found that if you are a solid member try your best to contribute in a positive way and be respectful of your fellow man, then you will acquire karma in a positive way. We all get familiar with who people are on here. Karma is kinda like age it's just a number.
That is a great idea Greg, as is Roids below.
Karma abuse can be fixed with a 10point (or what ever number) a week max applied to every user.
Thats the best suggestion yet.
AnonGreat idea Noid
Great post and some great ideas. I think the current Karma system works pretty well, but as with anything, it could be improved. I do think that the Mods do a great job of policing karma abuses. Every time I notice some major abuses going on, I see it corrected by the mods.
I think with any system, there will be folks who will look for a short cut, regardless of the safeguards. I think what's important is taking karma into consideration as only a part of your judgment process. There are many members with low to very high karma that I respect and have learned a great deal from. If I would of discarded the advice from "low" ranking members, I would of missed out on a great deal of valuable information and help. I think if anyone spends a little time here, they get a pretty good idea of who has something to offer and those who are not worth your time.
Again, great post and great food for thought! +1
Bro you would be surprised how many sleeper accts lay in wait from even "back in the day"
How many bullshit or bought reviews do we miss?
IMO one of the fatal flaws of the system and shouldn't exist for posting pics
DEF some pros and cons to any system and if there is a flaw there will ppl who will abuse it... I still say the best defense is to become a part of the community and earn your stripes... Gain the respect of others in the realm of what we are doing here, I don't care if you think Joe Shithead is "funny", there is no karma awarded here for "funny"... I've said it 100 times - EVERYONE is an idiot (to me) until they prove otherwise... that does NOT mean your an idiot until you prove to be a "knowledgeable member" but prove to be a "responsible member"
AnonYears as a member would just show when you signed up, it is representative of the date you signed up. It wouldn't be a seal of guaranteed involvement in the community. If you been here 5 yrs and have 2 reviews and 6 pics, we would be able to conclude something from that information.
The review part I stated that their would be no way to differentiate good or bad reviews. However, if someone write 0 reviews I want to know that. It would also help sources who want to give away gear. I would imagine sources would feel more comfortable handing out gear to people who actually have a history reviewing gear. Could I be completely wrong about this, yes I could and probably am.
Pics uploaded would not garner points because in my approach upvotes dont increase karma so even if someone posted pics everyday it would not enhance anything other than that one particular number. The system now allows a member to post a pic and collect as many votes as possible which increases karma. I have gained a great deal of points from pics but up votes has come from pics of my physique.
You make good points and I appreciate your opinion. Thank you
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkAnonYou know what.. i simply appreciate the fact that you care about improving the site
My input on the issue iS i feel bfg is an intelligent guy i mean just look at this place he created and i feel he will constantly improve it as he has in the past.. i mean look how much has changed over the years.. i been around from the beginning and finally joined after lurking for awhile... so for the karma system i dont really care how they do it... what ever works will be just fine with me... i like this place how it is now but i know some will always abuse it regardless of what you do... im just here to help guys and learn new things myself so i really aint concerned with the system.. i earned my reputation the hard way with pain and mistakes and success and just a little advice about it all
±3 buddha
NorthernTrustThe effort that you're trying to improve the karma system in itself means a great deal..I sent a FR so I can IM you about an issue to get your imput..
AnonThank you. FR accepted
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkI appreciate the fact that you've take. The time to think this through and write this point of view. I personally do not think it sounds better than the system that is currently in place. Is there a better system? Possibly and do I have any ideas? Not at the moment for I haven't given it much thought. There's too many variables happening here. First off a member could sign up just to use the SI pages to inquire about their gear and they could've been doing this for several years so that first number would represent them as a long standing member. So you think to yourself well that's what the other numbers are for. Well this is where it gets hairy. You could easily be a long standing member and active on the boards but obtain your gear privately because you choose not to use these methods to get your gear for fear. So now you're obviously not going to post a review. Probably not even pics. Well what about self pics? Not everyone here feels comfortable posting self pics for a multitude of reasons. One being self conscious, another might be paranoia of being recognized. If you're a active person in your community or have a high position in said community or job. I've heard a guy talking about this very website and he has a big mouth. Doesn't care who knows or who he tells. That's not the way I roll and I do not want this ass knowing that I'm a member here. Jeez that would be a train wreck. Some don't care..... I do! So I'd be irrelevant with you proposed point system. I agree that there are karma whores and there may be a way of improving the current system. Maybe through programming. For instance only allow you to vote for the same member once a month. Maybe have a better way of tracking multiple votes to the same persons like red flagging them that would allow the mods to see and investigate. I really don't have any great ideas but I again will say I appreciate what you're trying to do but must saying I don't like it. Regardless of what BFG decides to do to resolve this or if they do nothing at all I'll remain faithful to this site for as long as I play this game. I enjoy the wealth of information and a lot of the people here. One thing I do wish they would do is not allow you to sign up without having stats posted. I would also go as far as saying if they type an age .... Let's say under 24 that the site won't let them sign up. It shouldn't say you can't sign up because you're too young either. Just say something like I'm sorry but we're experiencing technical difficulties at this time. Yeah some might figure it out but it will keep a bunch of youngsters out...... These are just some ideas and my honest opinion.
AnonYou make some very good points here
±2
I judge by what people say when they comment not simply by karma. Not everyone that joins eroids is a beginner. People with a decade or even more of AAS experience join this site as well and start out with no karma. If someone is here for years and has no karma all that tells me is that they are not contributing anything, it doesn't tell me anything about what they know and what they don't know. As far as I can tell, they guys with advanced tags know their shit very well and deserve the ranking they have. If I have a differing opinion with ultra senior members its like less than 2%. Pictures are nice. You don't build a great physique by being a dumb ass that's for sure. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving karma for pictures. For some people, however, who have training businesses or a long competition history where all you have to do is to google the name and a boatload of pics show up, there may be a little concern about anonymity. Perhaps it's completely unwarranted. But I wouldn't insist on it either. It's interesting to look at the karma levels of the people in this thread. Fairly high. Not a lot of low karma people in here bitching.
I dunno, no system is perfect, but the one we have - if u want karma give the boys that need it solid advice.
You know, for me anyways, it's a little like a ministry - if you can get through to one knucklehead a week who is poised to wreck his health from sheer stupidity, as far as I'm concerned, IMHO, it's worth the time.
I gave a thumbs up for this because it is an excellent topic. I think it warrants some karma.
AnonWe all respect and appreciate your opinion Gearhead. Thanks for bringing up good points.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkGood ideas bro
AnonAppreciate the compliment.
Completely agree with you.
If anything, at the very least, the points from pictures should be looked at.
AnonI agree and must confessed I've earned quite a few points from pics I have posted. However, I feel it should be looked at.
I agree, senority matters as well as the amount of reviews placed and pictures uploaded really add to your creditability more than "karma".
AnonThank you. Its nice to see that you agree. Alot of good opinions on this thread.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkI just checked out the 2 downvotes guys....... no downvote took place it was a system fix that picked up on someone hitting the upvote button twice by mistake.... so nobody to hang unfortunately lol.
AnonAppreciate looking into that. This place is a blessing for all of us who want to educate ourselves for AAS. I wish I could nominate BFG for Time Magazine Man of the Year.
damn .... you just busted my bubble.. I was hoping some tosspot wanker was lurking in the shadows for me to crucify and make fun of im bored..... lol
lol.... next 1 i will save for you bro...... get the nails ready it wont take me long to 1 for sure
Ha ha
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davieboy32Im nearly a year on eroids and on it most days and have gotton my karma slowly. Then i see new member two weeks on eroids with more karma then me. All he done was put two pictures up. I think the upvoting around pictures needs to be looked at??
Yeah I feel you there brother..
AnonI agree abou the pictures. Rusty just wrote a good reponse on here about pics. Hopefully somethings will change in the future.
I think it's better to strive and be Gepetto than to be a Pinocchio.
AnonIs that a compliment lol. Appreciate it brother. Well said.
RustyhookerPictures is where the BS begins imo. There's a member on here 6 months with EXP tag no helpful forums yet dozens of pictures. Im thinking baconator here but who knows. That many karma for only pictures is BS.
This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I have to agree with the pic thing. A woman posts a bikini shot and shes level 1 in two days. Post another, sexier pic and shes level 3 before nightfall. A guy posts a pic and gets 4 or 5 points. I love the ladies as much as anybody here, but are they the exception to the "be helpful in the forums to earn karma" rule? Cuz I can break out my bikini and give y'all a show!! ;)
RustyhookerI don't worry about the ladies. We need the lafies lounge to grow. It's the guys that post gear pix daily just to get karma. No helping others. Just gaining karma for the freebies. Just part of the game i guess.
I second that. The women here are in short supply and for them to subject themselves to our scrutiny takes bravery.
AnonI understand your point and a agree partially I think their are lot of women on this site who kick ass and lift weights, and their physique shows their dedication and hard work. There are have been a couple where I'm thinking "really" but those few times I've witnessed a female get 30+ upvotes are rare and far between. Suze, Grrrl and Jfit all deserve the points I've seen them receive. Conversely I've seen guys post pics of their forearms cause their veins are well pronounced due to a compound and they receive a fair amount of votes. Just my opinion.
That is why even when someone has a lot of karma I still look to see what forum topics he has started. Is all of that karma fluff from pictures or is it primarily from putting up useful info. Unfortunately I don't think many of the newer folks on the site do much research and if they see someone with an advanced tag dishing out info they think it is gold.
Agree. When I arrived here, karma was only really obtained from useful posts / info. The whole pic thing has got a little out of hand, but if that's what people want to award karma for, so be it.
RustyhookerAt least most folks see thru the BS. I think it degrades the hard work at times.
I'm pretty sure I know who you mean. If you believe half the shit he says in the SIs, it's probably best he doesn't chime in the forums. He would end up getting someone killed.
RustyhookerSi is near as bad as cycle logs. Lol. I avoid if i can.
noob941yep x2
AnonAgreed.