+ 3 Tren and Lipids: What can be done?
So we all know how Tren can wreck your lipids but is there something we can do to fix or manage this?? Well I believe everyone handles things individually but we may be able to find something's that can help slow the shift or maybe together we can find the perfect formula to fix it lol... I feel that I may have slowed my shift with some artichoke extract and I've been soon further research and am trying other things to lower LDL as well. Some have tried statins (Crestor, Lipitor) and still no success.
So here is my plan that I'm working on testing. Feel free to pick it apart and perhaps enlighten us on maybe something that you found that worked while on Tren to fix your lipids or slow the shift down.
Current things I'm doing not only to monitor and control lipids but to also control safe levels of RBC, Hematocrit, & hemoglobin. I also keep track of blood values myself by having standard blood panel taken by purchasing my own blood work at www.healthonelabs.com. Results are back to me the following afternoon.
• Once a month blood donation either by RedCross or by removing ~450mLs of blood myself. When I go to RedCross I sign up for double red blood cell donation. Then the next month I would bleed myself by removing ~450mLs of blood.
• Artichoke Extract- my original dose was 1000mgs/ day. Which I had started when I started my tren at the beginning of January. When my first set of blood work results came back with HDL at 16 dropped from ~20 and LDL at 144 which had increased from pre-Tren which was at 92. I then upped my dose to 1,500mgs/ day spread out through the day taken 500mgs 3x/day.
Pre Tren Blood work after a test and deca run:
http://www.eroids.com/pics/recent-lab-work
Lab work about 10 weeks into Test Tren cycle:
http://www.eroids.com/pics/recent-lab-work-while-on-tren
• After further research I decided to try another supplement containing TTA. Then I began to research the effects of tetradecyl thioacetic acid on LDL. I started taking this supplement on 22-Jan-2014. I will continue with my regular blood donation and I will have a routine blood panel drawn after ~ 1month use of TTA to see how it affects my LDL cholesterol metabolism.
TTA and Cholesterol management:
"...The clearing of fat from the blood causes a drop in lipoproteins and a lowering of LDL cholesterol, and the burning of fats causes either fat burning or reduced fat gain. TTA can also decrease blood pressure and exert an anti-oxidant effect, the four mechanisms making it a cardioprotective compound."
"An increase in HDL cholesterol has been noted with TTA consumption"
http://examine.com/supplements/Tetradecyl+Thioacetic+Acid/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1432-1033.1995.0715p.x/full
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1874391913001747
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005276095002359
Other variables/supplements/compounds I'm taking to take into consideration:
• normal TRT dose of Test Cyp 50mgs IM every 3 days.
• My Tren dose is 150mgs every Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. In the beginning I was supplementing 50mgs of Tren base ~2-3 times per week for the first 8 weeks and now that has been removed and I am only taking the 150mgs of Tren Ace on days listed above.
• Vitamins/Supplements taking: Liv. 52- 2pills 2x/day, multi vitamin 1 a day, fish oil caps 2 caps 3x/day, glucosamine & chondrotin randomly no set days.
• zinc 50mgs/ day
• vitamin D 5,000ius
• ancillaries- .25-.5mgs adex ~ 2 x per week depending on water retention and prami taken at .5mg 2x/week when I feel I need it. Which sometimes is about every other week.
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AnonAs far as some feed back so far with TTA.
It will definitely make u hold some water. Not crazy but you'll see it around ankles/top of feet and my ring on my finger was lose gets snug but not tight. Only occurs around dosing.
AnonHere is something else that may be of some interest to you guys for lipids and as an antioxidant.
Featured in Anabolics 10th addition as well.
Lipid Stabil is a comprehensive and targeted cholesterol support formula for cholesterol levels already in normal range. It contains a full array of natural ingredients. This formula is also high in antioxidants.
Molecular Nutrition Lipid Stabil, 90-Capsules by Molecular Nutrition http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001US9BWO/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_qdxptb1WV9DT0
The thing I find MOST DISTURBING about Tren and this has always been the case for me is for lack of a better term of art "unpredictability." I can do real basic stuff like plan cycles where I'm gonna use it in advance being oh so careful I'm using the same manufacturer and lot number - let's take any production variances out of the equation at the very least. Let's dose the exact same way - hell let's duplicate the whole stack exactly. None of "your mixing it with different things and using a different dosing schedule." Get that out of the way too. More - freeze the diet - I'm gonna do a Test/Tren/Mast cutter that I have used again and again and I don't even want new foods involved. RX meds - exact same, not even a tweak.
After all that - sometimes I feel like utter fuck and other times I feel like the picture of health and before that first pin I have no way of knowing. Sometimes I will withdraw from it like a psych compound and get so depressed I'm almost suicidal. Other cycles - perfect. Lipids - they always get hit but never the same. It makes no sense to me. I use it for bulking, I use it for cutting. Using Tren doesn't make me feel like a big sophisticated man. It doesn't make me feel tough. I like the effects it produces most of the time but Viking is so right - on those Tren cycles where it's knocking down my T3 to the point where if I don't supplement I can't get out of bed - it sucks so bad I know I didn't become a bodybuilder to put up with this shit. I like feeling freaky strong, massive and healthy - that's satisfying - not Tren sick. And yet, next time around I feel great - no Trensomnia, nada. I have used a lot of AAS, peptides and yes even HGH / insulin / IGF-1 LR3 - and nothing in the whole arsenal (I have experimented with A LOT of chemicals) - nothing is as problematic as Tren. Nothing. I can pen a list of 15 amateurs and pros that have the exact same experience with Tren. Viking is also right - if you can't get your physique in check without Tren, there is a problem.
VERY GOOD READ BRO - Your suggestions can only help. Worth a try!!!
Anonnow you kno why i never post anything on here....
AnonLmao... I hear ya bro. Didn't quite expect that especially for a MOD but everyone has their right to their opinion and its fair game and i appreciate hearing from both sides. But hey I dug up some legit shit here and I know there's a few out there interested in my results and hooping for success.
I'm sure you'll follow...
I take it you think my comment makes no sense then?...... i ask again!... why.. would/should someone persist on taking a compound that makes them feel shit?.. then compound the matter by taking even more stuff?... doesn't make sense to me and i have been using gear longer than you have been on this earth, and if you truly believe that you cannot reach your goals without tren then you are sadly mistaken.
AnonNo... Sorry not at all what I meant. Your comment does make sense. My lipids aren't terrible and I don't feel like shit at all. You are correct if your not feeling well and the compound makes you ill then yes you should stop. Tren is just one compound of many that are good and has its place just like the next. Some people can handle it while others can't. Most people who cycle experience a temporary shift in their lipids. This resolves itself during recovery. I mistakeningly thought you were knocking me for exploring a supplement that might have a beneficial impact on our lipids while on cycle. This supplement isnt something that is known to compound any specific problems further. People take fish oil. People take SERMs and AIs to combat estrogen sides while on cycle. Sometimes those compounds compound other issues in a negative fashion. All depends on how you use them and when. This is an option that could perhaps be combined with fish oil...maybe.... I'm curious and figured I'd give it a go. Then also wanted to share the idea with our community. Perhaps someone else has tried this and it failed or had other advice.
If at anytime I feel that my health is compromised then I would stop and suggest others to stop their compound and move onto something that is effective and that their body can manage.
Again, I do appreciate your feedback. Feedback is helpful to myself and others. When other people come on and just laugh at members or go on rants which we have all seen on other posts that is counter productive to the member and other members looking for help.
But if you evaluate what you stated. Yes you are correct. So when in taking this supplement it turns out to be a flop and I receive adverse reactions I would stop. Since I have also posted my plan I would also post and inform as such here.
Currently I feel great and am very happy with the compounds I'm using and my progress.
No i wasn't knocking you brother i was just laying down the statement that i believe in and use myself..... see its something i have never done, i only ever use stuff i can handle and am very comfortable with.... my pupils will tell you i have two sayings that i adhere too at all times.........
If it aint broken.. dont try to fix it!
If it dont work or causes problems.... bin it!
Anyways... at the end of the day i have no problem with your post but i think we both have made valid points regarding compound use.
AnonCool... And I like what u adhere too!
Thanks man!
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkThank you
Anonya keep me posted thanks
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkAnonAWESOME!
Hahahahaha................................................
Easy answer here is quit using tren!..... why run any compound that fucks you up then resort to taking even more "fuck up drugs"... in this case T3.
I love this place you crazy Btards make me piss my pants everyday with your fkn madhatter antics lmfaooooo
AnonI hear ya man. Just research... When your on cycle most guys get a temporary shift in lipids. People like to combat sides while on cycle and so do I. Since I had blood work done and I had these supplements sitting around because yes I'm a supplement junkie I decided to dive in deeper and see if taking it would help change the shift, slow the shift, or reverse it a little. I am not a pro nor am going for a pro card but there are guys out there that are on a lot longer then the average person and would benefit from research like this.
As far as the other members sarcasm regarding pop this to combat that then pop that to combat this ect. Yeah I get it but this place is a great place to share experiences and learn from others.
RustyhookerPolypharmacy. Raise rbc so add aspirin. Aspirin Burns gut so add in stomach meds. Specific ulcer meds cause gyno. So add nolva. Nolva raises prolactin on nors. Add in aro for estro control and rsise caber.. Now got headaches. Add more aspirin and got nosebleeds. Bp is all over the place so crash sodium. Crashed sodium raises headaches to higher level. Add in Tylenol. Tylenol raises liver enzymes. Eyes yellow so add liv-52. Kidney stress now has me pissing blood.......
What the hell has happened to WORKING OUT???? Eat, lift and grow.
My head hurts.....best cure for tension isn't a pill but good old fashioned sex.
don't pass the wall this is all that would happen
RustyhookerHahaha!! Thats epic! Reminds me of Kung Pao Enter the Fist. Weee ewwww weee ewwww! Gnar gnar. Sneeze!
LOL..... just my point brother!..... i am surprised some of these fuckers dont "rattle" with all the combatant other shit they use daily..... i try to preach and prove "healthy lifestyle policies" WTF do all these numpties think they are doing to themselves with all these different pharma med stacks ?????
Pass the WALL bro......................... i need to smash my fkn head into one.
I've never used tren, but added a little niacin to my stack during my first cycle. I used only 100mg of niacin EOD and at the end of my cycle my total cholesterol was 180, down 40 points from pre cycle.
My Dr is not convinced that niacin actually lowers the risk for heart disease, he thinks it just tweaks my blood work numbers. He said I could keep taking it, or not, it didn't really matter.
Sending fr. Would like to ask about the labs you mentioned.
AnonAccepted...
Vascepa is a prescription fish oil pill that my doc prescribed me . My numbers were totally out of whack from the tren and i told my doctor i was on it and he gave me this script and told me it will help bring my numbers back in check
I'm shocked to see all this donating blood info here.. I thought that was an EQ issue.. I recently got bloods done while using tren for 10 weeks+ at mostly 125mg ed and everything was perfect ust slightly high platelits.. I did not get cholesterol checked though. Interesting info about T3 I'd like to see someone's bloods to back up that info
AnonDonating blood regularly is healthy and helpful to others as well. In regards to donating more often that depends I your situation and what your blood works says. If your RBC are out of range it's an easy way to bring them back if your am individual that normally runs at the high end and then run a cycle and only part way through your RBC are too high. Obviously one easy fix is yes stop your cycle but most out there won't want to stop shortly after starting and an option to stay healthy is to donate to help bring your RBC down.
AnonI started 25mcg liquid T3 today
RustyhookerDid you run blood test to prove your need for thyroid of jump in blindly?
AnonI have had low thyroid results in past. On gh as well... Ideally should have my bloods taken for thyroid function...
Argh!!!
I just posted a pretty lengthy response involving suppressed thyroid output and cholesterol levels. Somehow it got deleted :(
OP: Long story short, look into using T3 on your tren cycles, it made a world of a difference for my lipids. Just a replacement dose of 25mcg a day.
AnonYes I saw that... It was posted on one of the lab work posts.
"...My blood tests comparing tren w/o the addition of t3 compared to the addition of t3 are night and day. Not only were my lipids in much better shape, but some other variables, like hematocrits, were much more normal as well.
You can find a lot of information supporting the supplementation of t3 and healthy cholesterol levels.
It might not be the total fix to tren, but I think it is one aspect that people TOTALLY overlook. I for one had no idea my thyroid levels were so suppressed because tren always cuts me up and leans me out- we know these aren't typically the symptoms of an under-active thyroid!
A replacement dose of 25mcg might be all you need to keep your thyroid behaving right. It's pretty cheap and safe to use at this dose as well."
I like that idea and want to pick some up as well... Thanks for the feedback!!
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkNolvadex on cycle could help too as it allows estrogen to bind to the liver, increasing HDL
you repeatadley keep telling people to run nolva on cycles.... i asked you last week why and you said it was a mistake , this proves it wasnt, and i assume once you learn more in say 6 months, you will change your advice, just like so many other over night geniuses who had no clue but parrot cycle sections with no real life experience..... sigh
It was a mistake for gyno which I admit. For purely answering the op, Nolva answered. Now there are other side effects which would not make it desirable.
I was taught and have found that using low dose 10mg of Nolva during cycle has some benefits, the main one being cholesterol. I use Nolva for cholesterol purposes when I use something that is harsh on you HDL levels such as anadrol. Upon getting my blood results back 1 week into pct following a cycle of anadrol 50mg/day/4weeks while running 10mg/day of Nolva my total cholesterol was 201, LDL was 91 HDL 110. My doctor was shocked because most of her male patients rarely approach 80 for HDL and mine was was perfect.
My HDL following a test, EQ cycle with adex was at 46. EQ and test are supposedly less harsh on your cholesterol but with the nolvadex my cholesterol levels were amazing.
I try not to parrot threads and try not to give advice on stuff I've never tried personally, because I hate when people do that. I may change my mind in 6 months but I do feel this is how I feel. I just wanna contribute and learn
RustyhookerNolva and nor raises prolactin
AnonNice suggestion. I'll have to look into that. So I would ideally stop my Adex and transition into Nolva. Currently my test level is set to a TRT dose of 50mgs every 3 days so I should even have any issues with estrogen but I will look into this as an option. I was also told by another member that niacin will help increase HDL as well.
Yes, niacin they prescribe to patient with really bad cholesterol... Adex, letro, all AIs destroy HDL cholesterol while Nolva, clomid (SERMs) help HDL.
“Note that like some other triphenylethylene compounds, tamoxifen citrate can act as an estrogen in the liver . Estrogenic action in the liver is important in the regulation of serum cholesterol, and tends to support HDL (good) cholesterol synthesis and LDL (bad) cholesterol reductions.”
Excerpt From: Llewellyn, William. “Anabolics.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
“Studies have demonstrated that when an aromatizable steroid such as testosterone enanthate is taken in conjunction with an aromatase inhibitor, suppression of HDL (good) cholesterol levels become significantly more pronounced.”
Excerpt From: Llewellyn, William. “Anabolics.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
beyondimportsLet me know how it all works. I haven't been too successful with anything on tren
AnonI will for sure bud. I've got some high hopes here.