Methyl Estradiol, are you dealing with it?
I've seen a few cases dealing with dbol or anadrol related gyno.
They are frustrated because they are running Arimidex but estrogen is still rising. Is your e-block bunk? Maybe not.
Compounds like dbol cause the production of methyl estradiol. Which is quite resilient to Arimidex. And tends to bind in the breast tissues causing your flared nips and possible gyno.
Aromasin however "attacks" the estrogen rather than blocking it. Preventing the methyl estradiol from replicating. Which is why you see a lot of vets stressing that aromasin is to be used ON-cycle. Leave adex for pct
Assuming all other bases are covered, you might want to look into methyl estradiol. Considering it doesn't show on bloods.
I'm not sure if there was a write up on this but I figured this would help if there wasn't. Especially with bulking season coming up.
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Great subject it goes along with what I have been looking into! +2
ok.. i'm bumping you back up, bc some asshole negged you for only God knows why.
now.. if i understand correctly, methyl estradiol is a chemically modified form of estrogen that is converted into estradiol in the body. like a pro hormone. so, there seems to be a little confusion between the sex hormone itself and this pro hormone.
d-bol does convert to estrogen via aromatase. all of your AI's, adex included, do not attack or bind to the hormone. in fact, they bind instead to the enzyme responsible for synthesizing estrogens (aromatase). each of your AI's possess individual characteristics, though they function essentially the same. here's a lil info on them and what makes them different:
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/ai-what-are-...
the issue here with e2 levels continuing to rise while on adex is most likely due to an inadequate dose. dbol has such a short half life and is typically ran for short durations. because of this, by the time people are aware that there's an issue, the dbol blast is either finished or coming to a close. this can easily mislead someone into feeling that switching the AI corrected the issue, bc the lack of dbol in the system lowered the rate of aromatization, which is the process your AI is regulating. while on dbol or hcg, the AI aspects should be more pronounced and followed up with a slight taper down in dose once it is completed.
Adex can unbind after discontinuing use. Aromasin does not. I feel like I'm taking to a wall. This is a drastic difference when it comes to AI's.
I feel like you are in another realm bro. You don't seem to understand that this is irrelevant. I already explained that your body simply produces more aromatase while on Aromasin.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/anabolic-zone/125128-there-have-been-m...
Type 1 and type 2....many more benefits with type 1. Aka aromasin
If you read my op does it say anywhere about aromasin vs adex though??
No it's about both compounds vs methyl estradiol.
You are the one saying aromasin is better than adex, because you claim aromasin is better because it is type one.
So you are bringing this false info into your own thread. It's all good man I enjoy friendly argument/discussion. But I don't want to see false information being spread because that's how broscience starts. One person misunderstands the basic biology and tries to make a claim and everyone reading it who doesn't know better will believe.
We need to stop incorrect information in its tracks and I believe this thread is full of incorrect claims. No offense
I'm saying its better against methyl estradiol. Not entirely.
Personal level I think it is. But that's not the point.
Your remedies are always "lets throw another compound in to fix it" for example nolva for drol related gyno. that's like throwing in masteron cause you have puffy nips. My option is to avoid that.
Exactly. Aromasin is not more effective in equipotent dose than adex or letro. Body simply starts producing more enzymes. As I mentioned earlier examestane is better because of its mild effect on blood lipid profile and IGF-1 production in liver.
The whole point of my post is to look into methyl estradiol. Arimidex is not as effective against it as aromasin. I don't know where your getting that I'm saying its more effective.
If you re-read this thread carefully you will understand that there is no difference in terms of AI effect on estradiol vs AI effect on methyl-estradiol because both estradiol and methyl-estraiol are produced via aromatisation pathway.
1) Aromasin and Adex both neutralize aromatize enzime by binding to it.
The difference is that aromasin is an irreversible, steroidal aromatase inactivator, structurally related to the natural substrate androstenedione. It acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processed to an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation, an effect also known as "suicide inhibition."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exemestane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastrozole
2) Where did you get info about different conversion path for dbol ? As far as I know it converts to estrogen exactly the same way as testosteron (its parent compound) by binding to aromatise enzyme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methandrostenolone
As for drol, it's uknown how it causes estrogen-like side effects without convertion to estorgen. ONe of the explanations is that drol is capable of binding to estrogen receptors and acting like an estorgen.
research some more. If you dig into it more you will find that dbol converts into methyl estradiol. Roughly 30% more resistant to Arimidex.
Anadrol is an androgenic, the debate is whether it stimulates the estrogen receptors directly and others say its progestinic.
I know that dbol converts to methyl estradiol. This is not what we are arguing about.
AIs (adex, aromasin, letro) do NOT interact directly with estrogens. They block conversion by rendering aromatise enzyme inactive. So there is not such thing as resistance of estrogens to aromatise inhibitors.
And BTW aromasin is NOT any stornger than adex or letro in equipotent doses. Advantage of aromasin is that it does not have as many sides as adex or letro (i.e. effect on blood lipid profile).
My post isn't about adex vs aromasin. For the last time.
It's about methyl estradiol vs adex and aromasin
Thanks for clearing that up!
I am also unsure about what hes talking about because I also thought dbol simply converted to estro like test does.
With the drol nolva seems to work best and will prevent any issues. It doesn't matter what AI you are using. Not everyone is prone to gyno with anadrol though.
what's the standard dose per day when taken with dbol? 6.25mg? 12.5mg?
I've noticed and as an endomorph I've needed to start higher with the 12.5mg dose.
I haven't found conclusive evidence to support that body types can affect dosages though. But aromasin is very strong, so 6.25 is a good start. That way you can adjust accordingly.
you have forgotten to mention that over time your body develops a tolerance to armidex and you have to increase dosages.
I did not know that it! That should be on an AI sticky! +2
Thank you for your input. That's extremely valuable piece of info I left out. Why? Cause I didn't know that lol. Thanks grrl +1
you are welcome .. it is one of the reasons why I prefer aromasin over armidex ..
really? Care to elaborate?
I'm pretty sure aromasin works exactly the same way that adex works, by bond to aromatase enzyme.
Also really it's not necessary because you can just temporarily take low dose nolva if you notice gyno from anadrol. Nolva is usually best option if dealing with drol gyno issues
If arimidex isn't strong enough to control your estrogen issues it's possible the user has too much bodyfat
You must be on that train ride. You're starting to sound like me. Haha
Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor. Arimidex is not.
Arimidex competes with the enzyme that causes conversion. And depending on your body, might lose that battle.
Aromasin on the other hand eliminates the estrogen it's bound to. Preventing duplication.
They are very different from one another.
What actually takes place here is a simple chemical reaction where the chemical structure of the aromatase-susceptible hormone is altered, yielding a completely different compound. All of which is facilitated by the enzyme. In this case, the dbol becomes bound to the enzyme. At this point, a number of the molecular bonds, holding the atoms together that make up the dbol, become broken. Some atoms are release while others may be added. This changes the chemical structure completely, thus creating the estrogen hormones (there are 4 of them btw).
Aromasin and Adex both neutralize aromatize enzime by binding to it.
The difference is that aromasin is an irreversible, steroidal aromatase inactivator, structurally related to the natural substrate androstenedione. It acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processed to an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation, an effect also known as "suicide inhibition."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exemestane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastrozole
You do realize that if it's a suicide inhibitor or not has nothing to do with estrogen right? The body just synthesizes more aromatase enzymes. The aromatase enzymes are NOT estrogen. Aromasin does NOT bind to estrogen.
Arimidex doesn't compete with the enzyme that causes the conversion, it prevents the substrate from matching the active site.