+ 1 NEED HELP ASAP TREN A/ PROP/ WINNY CYCLE.... TREN DICK
Okay so I started this cycle at the beginning of the month and my dosages were as follows....
10 weeks
Tren Ace 25mg ed
Test Prop 75mg ed
Winny Tabs 40 mg ed
Aromasin at night 12.5 mg ed
HCG 1000 iu a week
Caber 1 mg per week
So the first 2 weeks went alright, showed some emotional issues, slight insomnia, typical tren effects, workouts were subpar however.
So with new knowledge I learned about I reversed my dosages to as follows:
Tren Ace 100 mg ed
Test Prop 25 mg ed
This was after learning the great effects of low dose test with high dose tren on gains and minimal sides.
Now I am on about week 5, and my sex drive is completely gone.
I do not know what I am doing wrong, and my workouts are now actually very legit, but I don't know if I should go back to high dose test and lower dose tren, to see if my member kicks back into action.
Can anyone put some input into my cycle here?
I can give more info and whatnot, just wanted to get this conversation started.
3rd cycle 25 years old 195 6'
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test above 250mg/w causes my libido to go to shit...everytime i've ran test at 500mg/w i've had no sex drive... when im running 210mg/week im money... i run tren at 110mg/day and test e 210/week my libido is decent... i use cialis 20mg sometimes to get that porn star effect when i bang my girl...
as far as estrogen or prolactin, these might also be issues causes your libido, but everyone is different.. gotta find your sweet spot as far as dosages
hebrewhammerBut I will keep this updated throughout the next few weeks to let people know about my symptoms and whatnot. Thanks to all for the great comments and replies, and I'm glad I decided to put a thread up here, because I most likely would have ran tren to the end, and could have possibly did some nice damage to myself, taking a few months to recover. Thanks everyone!
hebrewhammerAnd to let everyone know my diet is very clean, almost all organic foods, with a minimal intake of 230-250 grams of lean protein stemming mostly from chicken, and I also get a heap of protein from Quinoa, and legumes. I get close to 5000 calories a day, and my appetite was horrendous with the tren, so I'm hoping just test prop will keep that appetite alive.
I also had some other sides I didnt mention, because I didn't know how relevant they were to my initial problem. Do any users of tren report brain fog, or feeling slightly less motivated, or just a lot lazier than usual? My short term memory was pathetic, and my lack of concentration was completely ridiculous. I also got sick on week 2-3, and now I am stuck with a nagging cough that still does not go away, even with ridiculous amounts of Vitamin C. So theres some more food for thought for you guys.
jiimytattoo75ive ran a tren e and test prop cycle before and yes had the cough for only when i pinned and brain fog from bp but i switched test p and used test e and ran test 250 eod and tren 100 eod and gelt alot better and not being motivated and lazy well that could be low testosterone
hebrewhammerBut what I have isnt the common tren cough, I guess I just have a lingering cough from the little flu I dealt with. Anyway I plan on running just my prop, and I already am having some more libido functions, I would say I was at complete 0% and I feel now I'm around 30%. Haha, I feel like an 80 year old geriatric fuck.
jiimytattoo75been there before like an 80 year old man can u up your dosage?
hebrewhammerActually I think the tren is exiting my system, so I think my estrogen is slowly creeping up, because I felt amazing yesterday, great workout, didnt have much brain fog, so in a week I should be back on my feet.
jiimytattoo75good to hear my friend
Appetite suppression on tren is pretty common.. some people find a way around that others just push through it.
I get brain fog when test is low or estro is high.. or high BP.. I did have short issues with bp here and there.. were you checking bp on tren?
hebrewhammerSo I guess here is what I want for the rest of the 5 weeks left of this cycle:
I have put on about 6 lbs so far starting the cycle around 189-190. Now Im around 195-196 give or take.
I'm going to be running just Test Prop, no more winstrol at all.
Ill be taking small doses of Aromasin at around 6.25 mg (Or do you think I should hold off on the Aromasin until a week or two?) Just to get estrogen back in check?
HCG will stay at 1000 iu weekly
And Caber will stay at 1 mg per week, until I feel normal libido functions.
My other test only cycles were enanthate cycles, and I put on a nice 27 lbs on the last one. So I am hoping to gain at least 15 more lbs, with minimal bloat, and keep a somewhat nice physique.
So my next question will be what should I keep the prop dosage at?
I liked pyramiding in my last enanthate cycle ( First 5 weeks 500 mg, 6-8 750 mg, 9-10 1 gram)
So maybe now I could run weeks 6-8 750 mg, then last 2 weeks 1 gram of prop? With ED injections.
How does this sound to anyone still lurking on this thread?
waltrIf you're used to running dosages that high (if all your other cycles were that high) then i'd go for it.
If you're running 1000iu of HCG a week I'd keep taking the aro cause HCG will produce more estro as well as the test
Now my personal opinion.
With diet in check and hard work you could see the same results with way lower dosages.
a lot of good advice here for you mixed in with some personal opinions. try not to let the opinions distract you from the goal here: to gain control and correct your issue.
the guys are right in that this particular compound is far too advanced for you. your best bet in gaining control here is to drop the tren completely and focus on the test, diet, and training. first day or so afterwards you may get a bit irritable. maybe experience some acne flares as well.
prolactin is the female hormone that is affected by 19-nor compounds such as tren and deca. a much different approach must be taken to regulate and suppress this particular hormone vs estrogen. with every compound, measures should always be taken to offset any adverse reactions. your ancillaries play a key role in this. understanding the various compounds and how they interact with our bodies is what makes the difference between a productive or a failed cycle. it's all about balance when juicing brother.
because our bodies are programed to constantly strive for a state of homeostasis, everytime we illicit an increase in some aspect of our endocrine system (hormonal system), the body sees this increase and subsequently tries to balance with another reaction. in the case of excessive testosterone, enzymes and globulin play this role by binding to the hormone. the globulin (SHBG) will bind and render it virtually useless, although it can still be detected in total serum levels, but cannot interact with the cells. one enzyme binds and converts the hormone to estrogens, while another binds and reduces it to DHT. all of this takes place in an attempt to gain control over the elevating testosterone levels in an attempt to restore homeostasis.
understanding these reactions and how to regulate them is how you gain control and yield a productive cycle with fewer sides. it is this reason that we take the newer guys through a process so to speak before introducing the more advanced and risky compounds.
so, my advice coincides with these guys: drop the tren and take this as a lesson learned. the longer you run it, the more the prolactin hormone is being produced and building up, which means the longer the dick don't work and the harder the PCT will be. continue on with prop. find a good source for a prolactin suppressing ancillary like caber or prami. i'd recommend prami, as it's easy to get without being bunked. PM me, goliath, or omnom if you need help, since we all have some experience here.
if you're ok with this advice, then tell me/us what your goals are. from there we can help you modify the cycle to help meet your goals.
hebrewhammerIncredibly detailed response, I hope my issue will help others that fall into the same pit as I have put myself in. I will type up a much longer comment in about an hour, as I am without a cellphone and about to buy another one, so that is my issue right now haha. I have Cabergoline from buff on here, running the arcticgear shop, and from his reviews everyone seems impressed, so could it be bunk, of course, but does it seem that way, I'm not sure.
I will take it as a lesson learned and move on with the Prop, and have a healthier cycle full of less sides. I'll have a few more questions that I can think up in a little, and I'll have a better response to this awesome post you put up. Thanks Dossier
Oh guys try tren all the time man.. even after reading stuff like this and we see them come on the forums freaking out a few months later or asking the same questiong 50 times fishing for the answer they want to hear.. It's all about getting that great body as fast as possible and they always burn out.
This is why you get longer detailed responses from every one, we all appreciate your attitude and willingness to listen.
But you came in here and were very friendly and listened
Indeed... He earns a +1 from me for the positive attitude.
Where the hell you been brother?
All over the place!! Finally had enough down time to start a new cycle.. I'll shoot ya a pm
biggerthanyouWhy don't u just flat out drop the tren? You are too young and too inexperienced for tren and that is a FACT. Go with 100 mg prop eod. Or 50 ed. Aromasin at 12.5 eod. Split ur caber dose .5 mg 2x per week for a couple weeks after dropping tren. This would be the best thing to do for your HEALTH. If u don't give a shit about that then by all means go ahead and continue to fuck itself up....
the man is needing help and advice. always try to keep that in mind before making a statement like this that could very well wind up putting the OP on the defensive and closing his mind to any advice/help.
biggerthanyouComment deleted. You got this thread under control now dossier I'll bow out politely...
hebrewhammerThe reason so much concern was raised to actually post this, was that my libido was dead. First time on cycle for that to happen, and never in my life before steroids or even between cycles have I had issues. If dropping tren would get that back up, I would be all for that, but then to also be able to run tren maybe at a lower dosage and keep libido is also another interest at this point in the cycle.
biggerthanyouI really think you should drop it completely. You clearly were not ready for it. Trust me I've been in ur shoes and tren whipped my ass my first time around. Spent the better part of a year trying to correct the problems it caused. You do NOT want to be that guy
hebrewhammerHahaha, makes sense makes sense. Well looks like I'll have to shift my mindset into getting back into straight testosterone mode, which was always fun.
hebrewhammerI was actually considering that.... Would dropping the tren mid cycle really hurt me that much? And Ive run test enanthate for my other cycles, what advantages/ disadvantages does prop really have? I know its a shorter esther, does it bloat as much as enanthate would?
waltrbloat is all about controlling estro
biggerthanyouX2
hebrewhammerSo running aromasin at 12.5 mg ed is still the way to go then?
biggerthanyouDropping the tren would not hurt you, it would HELP you. Tren is nothing to be fucked with until you are over 30 and have more than 10 proper cycles under your belt in my opinion. I'm surprised no1 else is suggesting you drop it cuz that is hands down the best advice you could receive. There will be less bloat with prop cuz the half life is much shorter than enan. Therefore prop isn't building up in ur system as much but you are feeling the effects much quicker. I personally like prop more for that reason
age wouldn't have anything to do with when a person is ready, nor would the number of cycles... a person can consider themselves ready for 19's once they have demonstrated their ability to run productive, disciplined cycles with more basic to intermediate compounds like test, eq, masteron, etc. the key concept is to not have the "more is better" mentality, and most importantly properly execute AI protocols. when a person can truly learn their bodies with the most basic compounds, while controlling negative side effects thru the use of ancillaries and executing a structured dosing protocol for their entire cycle, then they are ready for the next and more advanced level.
it's about experience, not the number of cycles or the age. trust me when i say that X number of years running juice doesn't always equate to knowledge or wisdom.
biggerthanyouI agree completely but if u start saying that youngsters take it the wrong way in my opinion. Trying to make the point that tren is meant for advanced users not guys with 4 or 5 cycles that just want to try the most potent steroid. And yeah haha I've seen dudes on here saying "I been in the game 20 yrs blah blah blah" and I'm like wtf and yet u don't know shit.
I agree 100%. +1 ;)
great advice +1
hebrewhammerI think this is the advice I'm going to go with. There's the one part of me that just wants to keep pushing the tren hoping for something great to happen, and then there's the other side of me that is concerned about health, but obviously when your young thats a minimal concern. So I will probably drop the tren, and then maybe run test prop 500-750 mg? Prop is more potent than enanthate I'm assuming in terms of overall potency of the actual testosterone? And how long until the tren is out of my system and I can see a positive libido change? A few days, some weeks? Just trying to get everything set in my mind, to change this cycle to a different route. Should I continue with my winstrol?
biggerthanyouPleaseeeeee drop the tren
haha you will feel much better I promise! Yes theoretically prop is more potent. The ester is lighter/smaller so per 100 mg u get I think(should look this up since I'm basing this on memory from awhile back) 83 mg of test and the rest is ester. With enan its 69 mg per 100 that is test and the rest ester. Since you were using tren ace it will clear ur system in just a few day but you will still be feeling the progesterone side effects for a few weeks, thus the reason I said continue caber for a few weeks. You can continue using the winny if you like but keep in mind that winny is very liver toxic and should not be run in excess of 6 weeks or so. The absolute BEST thing you could do at this point(other than dropping tren, that is def #1) would be to get blood tests done. Make sure the are measuring prolactin levels as well. Hit up privatemedlabs.com and get the female hormone panel, and add prolactin test!!!!
waltrprivatemdlabs.com
waltrtren e you're looking at around 3 weeks max.
prop has more testosterone per ml due to a shorter ester being attached (propionate)
hebrewhammerIm on ace though
waltri'd take the caber for at least an extra week though if you really wanna be safe
waltrlol i thought you were on enanthate for some reason, yah if you stop taking the tren a it'll be gone in like a week at most
you have difrent things to look at couldnt say right out the back but aromasin at 12.5 ed will kill your libido cause estro gets too low i just ran eq test and tren and i was doing 12.5 eod sometimes i notice libido getting weak so i altered to e3d sometimes took 4 days off to cycle with tren you have to be very sure what your doing estrogen problems a bitch,,, with ace you might want to run test and tren at 100 eod works better for me also if you control your aromasin well your prolactin will stay on check wont have to run caber or any other ai for the tren hope it helps good luck
hebrewhammerDo you guys really think that my tren dosage was a little too high for my first cycle, even though I really wasn't having those crazy sides? I can remember in the beginning with the test high and tren on the lower side, I had a night where I cried 3 times, about tiny little things, and I really thought it was the tren talking. So thats why I kicked the tren up real high and lowered the test to minimize the sides. Little did I know it would destroy my libido, so that was confusing to me.
This is the main reason you should get a blood test.. Raising the tren higher could have raised prolactin which is a boner killer.. or it could be low estro from dropping the test so low and running your AI high.. just too many what ifs imo so I'd just get the blood test and it's cheap
hebrewhammerTrue true, all good points, Ill look to get one very shortly.
I think this could be a number of things that have already been listed below and you're in the middle of your cycle.. this is about the time you should do bloods to see what's working and whats not then apply what you learn to future cycles imo
hebrewhammerThats a good idea, I will try to get them done soon, I guess right now I'm just trying to make the most of this while I still can, so I may keep the tren around 40-50 mg and then kick the test to 100 mg. Thanks for your suggestions man.
You'll make better gains sticking to a happy medium than going from one extreme to the other.. We've learned with high test low tren you get sides.. and with high tren low test you get different sides.. You don't like either so why not something in the middle of those two =p
My first tren cycle I started with 50mg of tren ed and worked my way up as I went along.. Test stayed around 25-50mg ed the entire cycle.. I will say raising test to 50 def increased my libido in that cycle and sides were very minimal
hebrewhammerWell my shits from arctic, and everyone says hes the man with the plan, so I dont think it's bunk though. Appreciate the input guys, I will bump my test back up and see what we can do.
Goliath I will probably lower my aromasin then to 6.25 ed, and maybe take 1.5 of caber then.
bodybuilder, I was thinking maybe I'm just reacting differently, so I may go the more conventional route of keeping the test higher. When it was higher earlier on, I felt some of the sides of tren, but when it went lower than the tren, I felt no sides, but my boy didnt work at all.
AnonYou got the right idea. I honestly think 6.25ED and at least 50mg on the test will put you right. Generally the lowest most guys will go on their test is a high TRT type dose of 200mg/wk to maintain male function. Try to avoid getting caught up with tren after this cycle though bro, and hit up myself or any of the other vets on some other compounds and cycles you should get into first.
hebrewhammerSounds like a plan, thanks Goliath! Ill definitely shoot you a pm sometime to see what else I can get going before another tren cycle.
Either way you go.. I think 100mg of tren ED is too much for your first time and 25ed is to low.. I think 50mg ed of tren is a happy medium for which ever way you choose to dose your test
AnonIf its just your sex drive, you can increase your test to 50mg and/or try your Aromasin at 6.25 ED or 12.5 EOD as you may be suppressing your estrogen too much. If you just can't get your piece to work, you could raise your caber to 1.5 as you could still have high prolactin levels or your shit is bunk. I would start by just bumping your test up, as some guys can function sexually on a low maintenance level where others need more.
chances are it's going to be prolactin related. too long of a run with a short ester here and no protection. this means hormonal buildup (prolactin). not seeing too much info here from the op about any ancillaries, but i'm also getting lost in the fuddle of crap above...