First Cycle Confusion
Getting ready to run my first cycle and there are so many schools of thought I'm having trouble knowing what exactly to order. I've been researching cycles for the past 2 years and I'm finally at a point in my training where it's time to bump it up a notch as, I'm not getting much bigger/stronger and feel like I'm basically just maintaining. I've run cycles of tribulus/t-bomb/ and other shitty otc enhancers before and they really didn't do anything. Really just made me more financially committed to the gym so, I guess they kept me motivated.
Based on my research this is what I've put together but, please correct me if I'm wrong (or if you think this is being too cautious in a way that would hinder my gains or, not cautious enough) being realistic, I'd like to see a good 8-10 pounds with heavy work.
I'd like to run:
test-prop kickstart EOD at 100mg for weeks 1-4
test-enth Monday & Thurs at 500mg for weeks 1-10
Nolvadex EOD at 20mg weeks 1-10
Clomid ED at 50mg from weeks 9-11
I have read mixed schools of thought on Aromasin but, is it completely necessary first go?
Any suggestions?
30 yrs old
5' 9"
172 lbs
16% body fat
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Anonyou may want to hold off on that prop kicker until the next cycle. when you pin EOD, you need to rotate your sites. preferably between the delts, glutes, and quads. these muscles will not be used to both the pin sticks and the oils being injected. PIP and swelling is common until the muscles adapt. my advice:
run that enathate from the beginning and work your way into a prop taper at the tail end. start rotating the sites with your twice weekly injections of enathate. this will help you to adapt more gradually. your cycle should look like this:
http://www.eroids.com/cycle_logs/beginner-cycle-w-taper
join that group that's referenced in the link. you'll get all the info you need to begin your journey.
Well,
I placed my first order but, now I'm a little unsure about the AI. I read through an earlier post in which you and another user had conflicting points about the use of Aromasin vs Armodex but I've already ordered...The supplier I went through was a verified Sciroxx supplier so for AI and PCT I ordered Tamodex, Clomidex, Aromadex. As far as these products are concerned, I wouldn't change the dosage of the PCT products but the Aromadex I'm unsure of? My understanding was that Aromadex is less potent so, a higher dosage is needed to maintain estro stability? Or, am I just way off. I was trying to follow the beginner cycle to the t but may have ordered too quickly because on the supplier's site it has Aromadex listed as "Aromadex(Aromasin)" and I just assumed they were the same thing.
Anonadex and aromasin are slightly different from one another. both do a great job of binding to the enzyme that synthesizes e2. but adex doesn't form a permanent bond. he and i have different opinions of how this effects the body, but i stand by mine whole-heartedly.
it's not the strength of the adex that requires it to be dosed differently. adex is a completely different compound from aromasin, and it's a combination of how it reacts in the body as well as the half-life that calls for the difference in the dosages.
the half-life of aromasin is roughly 27 hours, and adex is roughly 46 hours. this requires that the administration of aromasin be more frequent.
Hey man, thanks for all of your help and sorry to ask a stupid question but, what would the altered version of the beginner cycle with Armadex? I wanted to follow your guidelines for the beginner cycle to a "t" but ordered everything from the same supplier before I knew what the difference was between Aromasin and Armadex (the site also had it marketed as Aromasin). I ordered all Sciroxx products for the cycle and the Armadex came dosed @25mg tabs. Should I just take the same 6.25mg dosage EOD due to it's longer half-life? or would the schedule/dose change a bit with armadex? And actually the packaging says Exemestane 25mg so I'm guessing "Armadex" is simply the product name and is the same compound as Aromasin? Sorry just trying to get my ducks in a row.
http://www.anabolicsupreme.com/Product.aspx?pid=120
AnonNo such thing brother.
Sciroxx is a great line but their names can be somewhat confusing at time. Aromadex is their version or Aromasin, so to answer your question, you would dose it according to the protocol I've outlined. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the sides of both high and low e2. And BE SURE to confirm dose effectiveness with bloodwork if it is available to you.
That's what I figured and as far as bloodwork goes, I can try but don't really know how to go about asking the doc for it and what my excuse would be for needing full hormonal panels and liver enzymes without sounding like I'm about to cycle. I will definitely listen to my body and as a rule of thumb, am I correct that you would lessen the dosage in the event of Low e2( lethargic, sleeplessness, libido issues) and up it if It were high (water retention, joint pain, ??? not really familiar with the high end)? I'm willing to bet you're going to say don't guess, and don't mess with dosage unless bloodwork is done?
AnonThere's a post in the beginners group that has the symptoms. As far as blood work goes. If you're in the US and in a state that isn't prohibited, privatdlabs.com and run female hormone panel for $60.
Will do and thanks again for all of the info!
Sounds good. I know it's probably not the same but I've run a few b-12 complexes that were large and thick injections and never had any soreness while pinning those. I guess the lure for me was that the prop kicker would be like instant gratification but, in no way am I looking to be unsafe about anything but, am still a little torn on wether or not to start it in the beginning. If its just a matter of sore injection sites and possible estro/gyno spike can't I just start the aromasin in week 2 or 3 and just listen carefully to my body? I would prob on sart with a 4 week kick of test prop in which the first week I would on do the test prop eod and the test e once at 250. Then week 2 test prop eod and test e at 500. I'm a firm believer doing things right and understand your thought process and caution I've just been on OTC pro hormones before many of the bans and tried various stacks as far back as 2006 (granted I'm no fool, I know these things weren't even comparable to real test/real estro blockers) but even with a strict dose, diet, training schedule the effects always seemed bogus to me and never experienced noticeable changes in test or even sex drive (trib is the only thing that is remotely noticeable and it usually takes well into my second bottle before I notice) I guess what I'm worried about is not being satisfied with the long ester alone.
AnonOne major difference between prop and b12 is that prop contains oils and benzyl alcohol. Your body is going to respond to each of those differently than it did to b12.
It's up to you if you want to run the kicker. First go around, and I don't recommend it. Trust me when I tell you that just the enanthate twice a week is going to cause you more discomfort than you're accustomed to.
Sounds good! Took your advice and ordered just the Test E, armodex, tamodex, and clomidex for a first run. Let me know if there are any other special instructions with these compounds other than specified in the aforementioned beginner cycle.
Thanks for all of the insight
AnonI'm not opposed to the prop. But only at the end of your cycle.
When that enanthate starts to drop out of your system, it will do so progressively and dramatically. Hormonally, it will be like falling off a cliff and hitting the side a few times on the way down.
The prop taper will provide for a more stabile decline, which will glide you right into your pct. it is outlined in the beginner cycle link I gave you.
Yeah test e pip is a walk in the park. Prop hurts a lot worse especially if its 200 a ml.
AnonReally depends on how it's brewed I suppose. Prop tends to be the worst test wise. I have some E that I'm pinning now and it causes a lil pain every time. This is the 5th pin. But it's nothing compared to most prop. There are some props that are a bit smooth tho. Virgin muscles: I don't care what kind of brew you're puttin in there. You're gonna have some "gettin used to" to do.
X2.
Also add trim that bf% down a couple of % before you start.
New2roidKeep clomid and nolvadex for PCT and yes you MUST use aromasin, its the most effective AI for during cycle. If its your first cycle i highly suggest you run ONLY test enth from wk1-12. you cant just stop test enth at 10wks its a long ester if you dont run it long enough you wont get much out of it.
Your cycle should be 12wks long
And your pct should be 4wks long start pct when test e is out of your system and since it has a half life of 10 days, you should start pct 20 days after ur last injection.
Use clomid every day
wk1-100/wk2-100/wk3-50/wk4-50
Use nolva every day
wk1-40/wk2-40/wk3-20/wk4-20
Use aromasin 4 weeks in cycle (after u finished test prop) everyday at 6.25mg then run it in pct also at 12.5mg a day.
Why would you run clomid and nolva during? That will inhibit gains from what I have read save that for pct and get a ai/ arimadex or aromasin. Zewi a vet helped plan mine out and he knows more then some kid saying he doesn't care if he ends up in the hospital or on trt the main thing here is that we stay healthy and come off with good gains and no sides.
This is from zewi just revised for a test e and p
1-12 Test E @ 500mg a week
13-16 Test P @ 100mg EOD
4-16 HCG @ 250iu-500iu a week last shot same day as your test p shot.
AI Aromison @ 12.5mg EOD or 6.25mg ED
PCt you start 3 days after last test p shot
Week 1 PCT 12.5mg EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 2 PCT 12.5mg EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 3 PCT 6.25mg EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 4 PCT 6.25mg EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
he obviously men't the weeks for PCT lol but wow giving advice at 18 what a retard he was on a one way road to being burnt lol
Anonno offense bro, but with stats and a bio like this, you really need to stop giving people advice until you're older and have more experience:
And that is why hes banned bro... cant have this attitude on here... no way.
Thanks vik that kids going to hurt himself and others with his bad advice. He's 18 he should be bussing tables and taking out the trash for his mom. Haha!
Sounds good! Thanks for the breakdown. I guess I just thought that the test prop kickstart would make my body more receptive to the test-e and therefore warrant a shorter cycle time but, if that's not true then, 12 weeks it is... As far as the AI goes, can I take Forma Stanzol in place of Aromasin starting around week 4? My friend has a sealed bottle from his last cycle that he just gave me in preparation.
New2roidI here good things about forma stanzol but to be honest they sound too good to be true so i
Wouldnt feel comfortable advising you on that. Simply because i don't know much about it. But if what i have read is true then apparently it works miracles and is good to go.
Understandable...My buddy used it during his last 2 cycles and said he experienced no estro problems. So it's worth a shot. I'll keep some aromasin around just in case. Also, is it necessary to run HCG during my first go? I understand the science behind it but, it seems like that would hinder my ability to gauge my bodies reactions to the other compounds?
New2roidOn a simple cycle like this i wouldn't think its that important to run HCG and like you said, its best to keep it simple on your first cycle so you can monitor your bodies reaction.
So keep it as simple
That was my original intent, to keep it simple. Thanks for the insight man! I'll just follow that 12 week breakdown + AI + Pct schedule.
New2roidGood luck bro keep us updated