Can Proviron lower Estrogen too much?
Wasn't sure if this is the right area to post this, but as the title states us it possible for Proviron to lower estrogen levels too much? I'm asking because since I've started using the Provi I've started having odd symptoms pop up. Excess dryness of skin, and achey joints, that have never ached before are the 2 biggies. I haven't noticed any increase in libido that others have reported since I'd started supplementing with the Provi nor an increased feeling of energy/well being. If anything I'm a bit more anxious and nervous. I quit using it yesterday to see how things go since discontinuation. My dosages were 25mg/day for the first 2 weeks, and then 50mg/day for the last week. I'm currently dosing 500mg test cyp EW. I was worried about gyno from the get-go so I figured the Provi would be a conservative way to keep estro levels in check. I'm inexperienced with this new 500mg blast dosage of Test per week and never have had any estrogenic sides on my 100mg T-cyp/WK TRT protocol. Maybe I'm just not prone to gyno and I'm killing my E2 levels with the Provi because of it? I just didn't want to become Bitch Tits Bob, lol! Sorry if I come across like a fuc*ing tool, but I'm new to this game. Thanks for looking.
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I think P answered your question pretty clearly. I'll add something. I have had an interesting experience with proviron. I used it during a cycle recently. I didn't use an AI. I had almost no estro side effects but when the cycle was at its end, I started developing gyno, horrible acne, emotional swings and the only thing I did different was STOP using proviron. My dose was 50mg daily split. So it caused some hardcore estro rebound upon stopping it. That tells me it suppressed my estro somewhat. If you run your AI the way you're supposed to, this shouldn't happen. I had never had any negative sides and didn't thin an AI was necessary. I believe that some estrogen is beneficial. It is, but I totally miscalculated provirons ability.
GearofWarThanks, Nitti. No doubt Proviron is a strong compound that I will 100% admit that I had no right using without the benefit of experience such as what you guys, the old salty vets have. It sounded like everything beneficial I wanted from an ancillary and I was reeled in with the potential of increased Free T and a turbocharged libido. As the old saying goes, "If it's too good to be true..." So, as you say, and from other places I've gathered info from, with discontinuation of the mesterelone I COULD see estrogen rebound and go the opposite way as I am now. If that's the case, I have the Aromasin to handle that issue. It seems much easier to lower estradiol than raise it. Thanks for the insight.
In my experience Proviron helps with estrogen. Its not like an AI, but it does seem to help a little in addition to adex
NO Proviron does not lower your estrogen at all!
Proviron is incapable of forming estrogen, whereby its binding ability to 'latch-on' to the estrogen binding enzymes prevents estrogen build-up. Therefore, it does have anti-estrogen properties, but it's ineffective to run as an AI.
Proviron on its own is not a complicated compound; it does bind very well to your SHBG, thus inhibiting your SHBG, therefor increasing your 'free testosterone' levels in your blood serum. Proviron has no suppressing effects on normal serum FSH and LH levels so in theory if your natural hormonal levels are suppressed it may even be able to raise LH which can then raise your natural t levels, but I wouldn't recommend using it for this.
Proviron does not help bring your natural testosterone levels up, it disguises the symptoms of low test (by binding to your SHBG).
Have you got an AI on hand?
GearofWarThanks P. I was hoping to get some straight talk from someone such as yourself. I have read your very well written and informative post about Mesterelone, but apparently my comprehension skills are not up to snuff. I can't see how I could've missed the fact that you stated it works to decrease estrogen build up, not surpress estrogen levels. Well, then perhaps my estrogen levels were already low and since adding the Provi my problems were exacerbated by the Provi's ability to decrease estrogen build up. I.e I'm low on estrogen already, Provi comes into my system, latches-on to the estrogen binding enzymes and further prevents estrogen build-up? The Provi isn't my only AI on hand, and i didnt think it could single handedly stave off gyno but I wanted to try it first before I even bothered with my Aromasin. Thanks for replying so quickly.
Lol, posted about the Aromasin just as you were making your EDIT.
No worries bro.
Proviron prevents estrogen build-up as opposed to decreasing it, by blocking the receptors and it also frees up some test from your SHBG so you have more free test floating around in your system.
Firstly GOW, to tell your estrogen levels i need to ask you a few questions;
1) Have you done blood tests at any stage of this cycle? (pre/during/post)
2) Have you got an AI on hand? Aromasin
3) What is your cycle history
4) What symptoms do you have? (which makes you think that you have low/high estro)
GearofWarI have pre-bloods from my PCP, although she orders very basic tests, so I'm unsure if the results will help you at all. I will post them after I get home from work tonight.
As we've already established I have Aromasin OH
Other than my prescribed TRT dosage of 100mg T-Cyp/wk I've never so much as had any other steroids in my system other than the 2 cortisone shots in my spine before back surgery.
Symptoms are: Very irritable, very dry skin on hands, elbows, knees, etc. Even dryer than normal for this time of the year, which does not improve at all with added water intake, sore joints that were never sore before. Fatigued.
Ok, your symptoms, dry joints/skin etc lead me to believe that you have too little estrogen in your system (read this: http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/estrogen-and-test), since estrogen helps lubricate your joints; this is why you see bodybuilders, post-contest run cycles with deca to increase their progesterone and estrogen levels which will releave their joints.
Do you currently take any joint support?
And it would definitely be worth getting a set of bloods done
GearofWarHi, P. I am currently taking glucosamine chondroitin, and fish oil as far as joint support goes because my right shoulder has always been a trouble area for me in the gym over the years(mostly bursitis). Tread's post you linked to was very informative so thanks for that. I posted on it asking Tread a question. I'm going to order an E2 sensitive assay from LEF: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC140244/Estradiol-Sensitive.... It's pretty expensive through LEF, but ive also read good things about Private MD Labs on one of the "other" AAS forums I used to frequent:
http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tests.php?view=search_results&show=1001...
Anyone have a recommendation for an accurate yet inexpensive lab? I don't necessarily mean cheap, just inexpensive, we all know there's a big difference.
It's good to hear you've got joint support at hand. (Although its probably best PMing tread) i saw your comment, and from nitti's experience mentioned in the comment above, dropping the proviron will help to increase the natural estrogen in your system - but you must be careful that the estrogen doesn't increase too quickly, which will result in sides. What i would suggest is to drop the proviron, and once you've dropped the proviron, take a small dose (what i call a control dose) of aromasin such as 6.25mg ED/EOD, so that if estrogen build-up becomes uncontrollable, you have an AI in your system already taking action, therefore if this problem becomes more severe, you can easily bump up the dose.
Thats a great idea, i'd rather provide you with the most accurate advice possible formed from facts, rather than guessing, and getting bloodwork done is imo the best option - although it may be expensive, you're health surely has more value. The only lab i can refer is LabCorp.