Relative Severity of AAS Acne
Im currently taking going to take my first cycle ever here in the next couple weeks but Im scared that the acne will come with a vengence. Whenever I read about steroid related acne noone actually quantifies it, they just say its bad. What is BAD? face full of zits, 10-20 more 30+ like can I get some rough estimates of numbers? Is it all over your face or just localized. Im acne prone when I was a teenager and had to use accutane to stop the acne. After accutane Ive pretty much clear for about 5 years. I get about 2 pimples a week at most but they are never bad or cystic. I read all these horror stories about people going on AAS and even months after there cycle ended they still have horrible acne. Just want some info on personal breakout situations from AAS.
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So far 5 days into the Dutasteride taken at .15 mg/day, Ive noted a pretty decent reduction of facial sebum. I've been reading that .5 mg/day is better, but Im trying to taper my dosage up to see when side effects kick in, if any! Currently no side effects at this dosage. Have had NO new pimples since I started taking the Avodart (Durasteride). To give a perspective, in the time that it took for my face to get oily after I washed it was about 4 hours, now its about 9+ hours before I notice the oiliness. I expect better results once I up the dosage.
Will update soon!
hey bro. got a question about your Dutasteride. sent you an FR so I could PM.
Crazy think is that I had no signs of acne until after I had finished my cycle and Pct. Everytime I flex my traps fifty pimples burst at once, its like a crime scene!
Since my last cycle ended (end of dec) to a week ago Ive been a mess with pimples shoudlers and back. What dried them up or cleared them out for me was exemestane. not that it is a drug for acne but it is a powerful estrogen reducer yes?
High estrogen levels in my body casue a lack of sexual desire and acne as well as a little depression. A few day of 12.5 mg gets everything in check.
I cant say anything scientific about this its just what Ive used and done that works for me. SO it seems that higher than normal estrogen may be related to acne.
It's almost like you're talking about me! Not so much depression but mood swings followed by "What the fuck did I just do!"
this feedback is great. Also just shows how different folks respond to different hormones . . . there is no blanket statement that covers everyone.
My acne is bad on my arms! And they r deep and painful! Leave nice scar to! Nothin seems to help:(
AnonI would gather given what I know about accutane, your sabaceous glands have been shut down for life.. how many treatments did you take ?? only two are usually prescribed, so ..
Ive taken one prescription of accutane over a course of 5 months about 7 years ago. Accutane is a terrible drug. It thins you skin out permanently and just screws up you skin. Before taking accutane I had a perfect peach complexion. After accutane it gave me and a couple guys I know red ruddy blotchy complexion. I had to go through numerous facial treatments and 7 years later my skin is about 90 completely back to normal (7 years later) besides the red hue to my face and neck. Its not as bad as I say it is because acne kills you self confidence. Anyways I would NEVER take isotetrionin again.
accutane is some serious stuff. There are plethora of class-action lawsuits over it. Anything with suicidal tendencies as a side . . . oh man. But I have seen a couple of friends . . . and this was 20 years ago . . . their acne was so bad they couldn't even shave. And accutane worked. Talk about one of the ultimate risk/reward drugs.
AnonIt is a terrible drug and is pretty nasty to your insides as well...it should have permanently reduced the amount of oil your skin produces though so you may not experience bad acne while on cycle....peach ehhhh?
I know first hand its bad on your insides because I had monthly blood work done while I was on it. After a couple months I had some liver irritation.
Ive taken one prescription of accutane over a course of 5 months about 7 years ago. Accutane is a terrible drug. It thins you skin out permanently and just screws up you skin. Before taking accutane I had a perfect peach complexion. After accutane it gave me and a couple guys I know red ruddy blotchy complexion. I had to go through numerous facial treatments and 7 years later my skin is about 90 completely back to normal (7 years later) besides the red hue to my face and neck. Its not as bad as I say it is because acne kills you self confidence. Anyways I would NEVER take isotetrionin again.
I've gotten acne very bad. It only happened when I ran Tren. It was cystic acne on my back. I was on all kinds of meds for it and I'm pretty much scarred now. I'm not trying to scare you but it can happen. It was localized (back & shoulders). Never my face. For the most part they started to go away when pct was done. My brother who also ran cycles with me had none at all. It's unique to the individual. I've run a few different kinds of aas and didn't experience it until I ran tren. Just my $0.02
tread-mNot sure about others, I had acne on my face when I was young but never have on gear. Acne is usually confined to back and shoulders and can be anywhere from 3 to 300. There are ways to help keep this to a minimum as to my experience and while there is little science behind it due to the fact that I do many things I think contribute and realistically my success could be only one of those things. The bigger point is, all of the things I do are healthy and if not beneficial in that area then at least beneficial
So stop and think about whats going on at the age you break out from puberty. First off there is a rage of hormones bouncing off of each other and fighting for reseptors and the different glands are going crazy trying to meet the balance in over production. So along the same time all of this is occuring you may have the largest conversion to dht occuring in your life. Dht is resposible for balding and for prostate depreciation as well as many other negative things and plays a role in acne as well.
So first I think you look to hormone balance as the initial answer. Using prop as the test in cycle you will want a hit at least every other day and daily if true balance is to be achieved. With a longer ester such as E or C 2 times a week should be beneficial in acieving balance. This practice in either cause the free test plama ratio's to have a more stable measure and even though high, less fluctuation may help tremendously in terms of acne.
Now for the dht side of it. Saw palmetto is shown to reduce dht in the body so a good daily supp that includes it should be used for life, not just while on test or any gear. Many will tell you it has little to do with pimples, I think it does so take it for whatever you think its worth. Many people I know even have success with propecia for acne given it resolves dht on cycle much better than saw palmetto olone.
Last, and maybe not least at all, drink water in large volumes and if you have the willpower to do so, drop all other drinks out of your diet. This not only helps clear the bodies water that you can hold on cycle, it flushes the body better than without and is healthy in general. A healthy environment with stable hormone is an ideal place for better things to occur. If holding water a lot aromasin will help on cycle as well and at the same time help keep estrogen in check which is also a hormone that is unstable on cycle. Do all of these things and even if acne is not perfect you have set up a better environment for good things to happen in your body.
Yah Im going to preload a week before my cycle with a 5ar inhibitor Avodart (Dutasteride) to keep those sebaceous glands from becoming overactive.
Ive read that 5ar's will inhibit strength from a cycle but not inhibit gains. Does this sound correct? Correct me if Im wrong
tread-mAvo outlined some very nice points and the most imoprtant in my opion were reference to "contribute" and "balance". As he idicates, balance is not necessarily going overboard in one are. Balance is balance so if you go overboard lets say in one are other things occur in the hormone domino's that also do something "overboard". Nice steady flow of everything and I think saw palmetto is the start place with propecia later if everything else is dialed in and you need a little more. We're not talking about hyperplasia as in another thread hwere I touched it, this is simple prevention so avodart is not my direction. Sometimes we get caught up in preventing something to the degree we go too far the other way. In other words, the cure may be worse than the disease if there was nothing to cure...lol. i would follow the simple healthy guidelines as well as take you regular supps that iclude what was mentioned and fish oil, coq10 etc for heart health and just roll conservatively with your test use. Today is the goal so don't get in a big hurry to get somewhere.
Be careful using Avodart for Acne prevention.
You are using a powerful, long-long half life DHT blocked to fight acne?
But what causes acne? Is it test converting to DHT? No specifically and not really.
DHT my contribute to acne, but so does test and estrogen. Any hormone spike can trigger it, and it'll be different per individual. Both women AND men can get horrible acne. How much DHT is circulating in a woman again?
So, if the androgens you are taking cause your body to produce more sebum, then my guess is more acne will follow for those predisposed.
I can say that var in my personal experience really didn't increase my acne. Test does increase on me, primarily upper back and chest.
Now, can you tell us why you chose avodart over the much milder and generally effective proscar/finasteride?
Some folks get gyno from avodart, and it has a long half life. Be warned.
I'm not sure how a 5AR blocker would inhibit strength? So you have less DHT but more free test? I think you are really, really digging in the weeds here. These aren't universally accepted truths. I was equally strong before and after going on finasteride (all natty test), any difference was from my work effort level in the gym.
•Erectile dysfunction (ED) or impotence -- up to 4.7 percent of people
•A decreased libido (sex drive) -- up to 3 percent of people
•Abnormal ejaculation, including decreased ejaculate amount -- up to 1.4 percent of people
•Breast enlargement or breast tenderness -- up to 1.1 percent of people.
This is what i found on http://prostate.emedtv.com/avodart/avodart-side-effects.html
Good deal. You are doing the research.
If you go on avodart for acne prevention, let the forum know how it worked while on cycle for you.
I've seen this were folks think "more is better", BTW. I've advised folks who haven't even tried Proscar, who were so eager to just skip to Avodart because it blocks more DHT conversion. AND, Avodart definitely blocks more DHT conversion..
Whether that mechanism gets you the result you desire, that'll be interesting to know.
Finasteride inhibits only type II enzyme, this is why it only inhibits about 66% of dht but doesnt block type I
Avodart specifically inhibits the type 1 enzyme of 5Ar that causes your sebaceous glands to proliferate. This is why some people have acne months after their pct because their exogenous supply has been cut of but their sebaceous glands are still enlarged. Im going to take really low doses of avodart. Yes I understand that its halflife is 5 weeks but reading review jiurnals on pubmed databases shows that avodart is pretty safe when used in small doses.
Again, I'm not convinced just blocking type 1 enzyme cures you of acne. Other hormones cause acne as well, or women would not have acne.
Here's my question: If you are convinced that blocking type 1 is an acne fighting treatment, why isn't any big pharma company also thinking that? There would be enormous amounts of money to be made for our looks-conscious society.
We have accutane that we know is terrible, terrible drug that was prescribed for acne treatment, yet know one has thought about avodart treating it?
Anyway, I know about type 1's presence in sebaceous glands. It may or not be a significant stretch to say neutralizing that enzyme at the source directly results in less acne. We don't have any proof of that mechnanism, or at least no big pharma company is putting their money there.
Can you imagine that if blocking the type 1 enzyme really proven to stop acne, how big a deal that would be to so many folks?
I don't agree that the type 1 enzyme causes your sebaceous glands proliferate. We are talking about limiting the activity of these glands, not about creating new ones.
Honestly, it would be really interesting to get some documented cases on the effects of Avodart on acne. What we have is cases of Avodart on BPH, and I know of cases of Avodart for stopping MPB too.
I also have documentation on the gynomastia side effect of Avodart, and its long half life.
I just can't recommend using Avodart for acne prevention.
My take is Avodart is for folks who have used Proscar for BPH, and it hasn't quite worked. Actually, I'd have similar advice for men experiencing hairloss.
Sorry when I said proliferate I meant hypertrophy. Also yes, I will post a very detailed log after my cycle ends with pictures, measurements before and after.
Very cool. Good luck with your cycle!
Also, I have seborrehia and which,is caused by overactive oilglands. Ive never been checked for DHT insensitivity or maybe I have a upregulated production of 5 alpha reductase thus converting a larger percentage of testosterone to DHT.
UFOReally? Let me go count the number of pimples on my ass real quick...haha. like KMC said everyones diff...No one is going to be able to answer how YOU are going to react. You might not have shit for acne sides, or might turn into a pepperoni pizza, wont know till you actually cycle. For me, I fall somewhere in the middle but it always depends on what I'm running...never break out bad on my face, worse seems to be shoulders back(big ol nasty ones), and little ones on my chest.
Haha bro, you just cracked me the F up!
Everyone is different,........everyone is different!!
Give us some stats and a lay out of your cycle, and some other may have more input.
Week 1-8
40 mg Anavar split into two doses ED
30 mg Test Prop ED or EOD depending on breakout situation
.5 mg Arimadex ED (Lower the Estrogen from the inhibition of 5ar)
.25 mg dutasteride ED for Lower conversion to DHT
PCT
Nolva 40 mg ED
HCG 250 iu ED
x2