Looking for opinions on certain topics regarding HgH use
So after doing a lot of reading, here and elsewhere, Ive decided I want to get my feet wet with GH.
Since I'm sure it will be asked, I'm about to be 28,I'm 6'4, 265 lbs, at about 20% bf (i know ill probably get flamed for using at that high of BF, thing is its leftovers from being a fat useless fuk during college. Diet and training is more on point that stats would suggest. Peaked at around 370 lbs. About 6 yrs ago is when I started to get my shit together, and lost over 110lbs natty.) Currently in the middle of 5th cycle of AAS. Looking to start gh at a low-ish dose prolly (2-3IU/day to start, maybe more during another aas cycle) to aid with fat loss, and just overall well being. Goal will be to start GH towards the end of this cycle, complete pct, and have a couple months off (of aas) and then begin a new aas cycle to overlap the end of this GH run.
All that being said, Ive come across a few points of GH use that seem to be rather split, so I would like to dicuss them with people here who have real experience, and can share their thoughts.
1) The dosing split. I see some people advocate the 5 on 2 off days, 6 on 1 off, some say that's only necessary if you're running for quite an extended time, and if only planning on doing for ~6 months, ED is fine.
2) Dose timing. I think more people agree that 2x a day is better than once, but the times are debated. Most say in the AM upon waking, but then its a tossup between mid afternoon, pre workout, before bed, etc.
3) The use of T4, and its dose. Seems logical tsome say its unnecessary unless using for a long time. Doses I've seen advised range from just 25mcg, to 1.6mcg per kilo of weight.
4)Sub Q vs IM pins. Seen proponents of both, I feel like SubQ is more practical, especially for 2x a day, but a lot of people claim they prevent the red bumps suing IM.
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Bumping, this is the article that really made me think about the mild t4 supplementation.
Long read, but really interesting I thought.
http://thinksteroids.com/articles/thyroid-hormone-growth-hormone/
Thanks for the replies. I wasnt about to use a super high dose of T4 if I were to do it, would do maybe 25 for a bit, slowly taper up to maybe 75 or 100. As it is, I probably wont mess with it yet, unless I need to.
WithdrawlI've done IM and Sub Q and notice no difference. I've seen a graph on the release rate of both IM and Sub Q and there was very little difference (provided the graph I'm referring to was legit). My friend has to do IM because he gets the red spots if he doesn't.
as for taking a day or two off each week from injecting HGH, there are published studies that show there is no suppression of natural HGH using a 5 on/2 off or 6 on/1 off protocol when using it long term so I think that's where people get the idea from. Also I think it's a money saving thing too. I haven't seen evidence that every day use suppresses natural HGH output once you stop so I don't know if that's the case or not. I believe that unless you're using this as a replacement therapy, you should inject your doses during the day or evening, and not right before bed, so you can take still take advantage of your natural surge when you fall asleep.
As for T4 and T3 supplementation with HGH, I don't think you should do that unless you have blood work showing your thyroid is suppressed. Not everyone sees lower thyroid levels with HGH use so I don't see a need to do that if you don't have to. I haven't followed my own advice and have been taking low dose T3 but I'm going to transition to T4 then go off completely for the reason I stated above. No sense in messing with your thyroid if you don't have to.
Splitting your doses is one thing I see conflicting info on. I've seen where it is believed that splitting your dose minimizes side effects. I've also seen where there are benefits to getting a higher peak (dosing it all at once) and also by maximizing the duration of elevated HGH (splitting your dose). So which is better, a higher peak of HGH levels or a longer duration of elevated levels? I don't know the answer to that but I'm going with duration (splitting doses). I've also seen where guys use a higher dose EOD. This goes along with the theory that a higher peak will cause more growth to be triggered. It's all so confusing and I wish there were more studies on HGH and bodybuilding. Until then, I'm going with what the masses suggest and split the doses up and use it every day.
That 1.6mcg/kg of body weight is ridiculous. I'm 115kgs ish, and I had my thyroid completely removed by surgery about 5 years ago as it was over active. I therefore have zero T4 produced naturally. I take 175mcg/day, which is less than this figure (just). Some people suggest a slight addition of T4 is helpful, but they do that purely on the basis that they lose a touch more weight by increasing their thyroxine levels. Personally I disagree with the idea as a whole.
Those numbers would put you into serious thyrotoxicosis. Whoever thought that up is going to make someone VERY ill. Whatever you do don't follow this protocol.
yeah, they did say that the 1.6/kg number was basically a full replacement therapy dose.
I researched the hell out of GH before I decided to use it. Been on it for 4 weeks now and up to 3.3 iu/d. Based upon what I have gathered through my research, I'll give my opinions on your questions.
I am taking it ED. Currently no off days. If you are planning on taking it year round, then I would suggest the 5/2 or 6/1 split. But if you are only taking it for 6-8 month stretches and then taking a break, ED should be fine. If you are worried about taking ED, then another option would be to take it everyday for the first two months or so to get your IGF-1 levels elevated quickly then drop back to 5/2 or 6/1 for the remainder of the cycle.
Once you get up to 3iu or more per day, it is probably best to split the dosage. Opinions on timing are like assholes, everyones got one. What seems to make sense to me is to avoid taking before bedtime, especially for anyone under 50 yrs old. My thought is why disrupt your natural GH release when you fall asleep. You are most catabolic in the morning when you wake up and early afternoon, so it would make sense to take your doses then and then you will still be receiving your natural dose at night.
Messing with my thyroid is something I would rather not do. I play it conservative and don't take any T3 or T4. Unless you are really getting into higher doses of GH, I think it is unncessary. Most people seem to be getting great results using GH without messing around with thyroid hormones.
Try them both and see what you like better. They are both valid delivery methods. I do SubQ.