Grossly overtraining??
Is it possible that I could be grossly overtraining my muscles I've been lifting for 6 years consistently and body building for 1 but it seems like as hard as I work and everything I do to make sure my body has the best potential for growth it is not working I diet right I get good sleep at night never stay up late or drink alchohal eat 6 or 7 times a day along with 2 protien shakes and train my ass off then I see guys who don't work half as hard and are bigger or as big as me so I've been doing tons of research on the aspects of bodybuilding and came to the conclusion it must be my training that is the problem here bc diet and everything else necessary is spot on. I grew up as a powerlifter so I had that training tendency for awhile then finally let the ego and the big weights go and started concentrating on isolating and getting a good squeeze at the top and a good slow negative rep with tension and cut back to training my muscles only once per week opposed to two times a week like I used to but I've been watching a lot of videos and doing research and finding that when training people are doing way fewer excercises than me I.E. lets say chest day I would start with flat bench then do flat db flys then move to incline then incline flies then decline and decline flies then I would do db presses flat, incline, and decline then move to some cable flies finally finish with some push ups and my chest would be murdered I thought that was the point of lifting to work the muscle as hard as possible but now I'm finding out I could be very wrong I see most pros only doing like 4 or 5 excercises 4 sets each and I'm doing at least 8 to 10 excercises....
So I would appreciate it if y'all would give me some input and knowledge on the subject tell me how y'all are lifting how many sets how many reps and why your doing it that way I would love to learn all that I can. Another question I have is how are you lifting the weight are you just getting the weight up any way you can with mechanical advantage or are you holding decent form or do you hold strict form and concentrate all your efforts on just using the muscle you are training and getting a good squeeze and good slow negative? I think it's obvious I have a lot more to learn about training and I thought I knew it all awhile back man was I wrong. Help please!
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Yeah man...I might be repeating some of the info below, but if that is just your chest routine, then you are doing absolutely WAY too many exercises. Come chest day, I will do ONE or TWO compound movements and two isolations. For example:
4x5 BB flat(or)incline bench
3x12-8 flat(or)incline DB press
3x15(or more) cable crossovers
and MAYBE some dips??
Just ONE routine I have tinkered with before...maybe even cut it to ONE compound movement with ONE isolation depending on if I am hitting another muscle group with chest, like I do some back thickness exercises here and there on chest days. BB row and shit like that...opposing muscle groups theory training. Serge Olivia was big on things like that, and the dude was a demi-god(as we all should know).
diet.
regardless you should be gaining weight if your diet is "spot on" like you said.
1jakd_hipyNot true! I have crossfit buddies (crossfit is the king of overtraining) whose diets are amazing and they are 170-180 pounds. Look at Michael Phelps he was taking in something like 10,000 calories a day and tons of carbs but because his training he stayed extremely lean
Anonagreed! see my post below for some facts about the processes at play here.
As a power lifter I'm guessing your rep range is somewhere in the 6-8 range on most of your exercises and with that many different exercises it can be very taxing. I like to do be in the higher rep range for bodybuilding it promotes mass vs brute strength. My chest day looks something like this.
Flat Bench: 1x15 2 sets x 10 1x6 1x1rep max 1x drop set ( keep stripping weights till just bar)
Incline bench 4x10
Incline flys 4x15
Machine or cable fly 2x25
Chest Pull overs 3x15
The reps range changes so both slow and fast twitch muscles are hit, it also focuses one all the different parts of the pec which is very important. May seem like alot but the change in reps throughout the workout hits perfectly for both mass and strength. If you need help setting up a program feel free to PM me bro. Each muscle group is only hit once a week to avoid over training and I can't tell you after this you won't want to hit chest more than once lol.
1jakd_hipyThat's a lot of anterior delt work for a powerlifter
1jakd_hipyDo me a favor (because I have ADD) and post a typical week, sets, reps, weight and what you think your 1 rep max is on the big 3
mr127superdeeyou need to try different rep ranges that always works for me one week bang out every exercise at 15-20 reps for like two to three weeks straight then drop it to 6-8 after two weeks then back upto 8-10reps if you still dont see a difference time for gear lol
I'm already on gear man I'm just in a horrible plataue right now.
I thought high rep ranges were more for shape and low was more for size? Right now I'm just looking for size so what should I do
Try upping your calories, protein especially! Can't grow without it!
I've tried upping them and I just start to get fat. So y'all don't think it's the training?
AnonI have to agree with fast and GF on this one also. I feel your pain, brotha. Nothing like getting pumped up, hitting it hard, trying to push yourself; no pain no gain, right? As time passes new research is showing how some of the old school's of thoughts are not as effective.
This rings a bell for me.. I can remember a time when I had reached a plateau at 185. I started pushing myself harder and lifting more and going for longer sessions. I noticed i was getting a lil tired more easily through out the days. After 4 wks of this, body composition testing and the scale showed an increase of 4 lbs (i was all natty for this) but a decrease in lean body mass.. Couldn't understand it, so I hit the books.
Here's what I found.. it all boils down to how duration and intensity affects cellular catalysts and hinders protein synthesis. Let me break it down for you:
Cellular catalysts are responsible for performing all cellular work, including the breakdown of nutrients for energy or for repairing tissue, and their rate of depletion is directly related to the amount and duration of cellular work performed. Without catalysts, the muscle fiber would not function. For this reason, catalyst replenishment takes precedence over protein synthesis. Once catalyst have been replinished, the next basic cellular funtion can be performed (protein synthesis).
If the duration and/or intensity of exercise is too great, catalysts are depleted and must be replaced immediately in order for them to perform their cellular functions. These catalysts are made primarily from the amino acids leucine, isoleucine, and valine (BCAAs). Since muscle tissue is comprised of approximately 60% of these amino acids, if blood proteins (i.e., dietary or otherwise) are insufficient for the replenishment of cellular catalysts, muscle tissue becomes the primary source. Thereby resulting in tissue breakdown during overtraining.
Now this brings me back to the training principles.. more is not always better. With your background in the gym, it will be more of a psychological challenge for you to break free of the old ways of thinking. Just remember: more is not better. A 5x5 routine is great for strength and size gains. Try to limit your workouts to 1-1.5 hrs in duration at the max per session. Just imagine how it would be to work less and gain more. It is possible brother. How to structure your routine is entirely goal dependend. Just know your limits and respect them (as tread would say).
Another thing that I determined about my hinderence was that my meal timing was off. My diet wasn't too bad; I still gained weight during that week at the desired 1 lb per week rate. Problem was that it was all fat tissue. The overtraining reduced my lean body mass. Since muscles are a metabolically active tissue, decreasing the amount of that tissue lowered my metabolic rate. But where I found my solution in the kitchen was my meal timing. I wasn't giving my working and repairing muscles what they needed when they needed it. As a result, they catabolized to meet immediate demands. One key factor in my nutrition regimen was a concept known as "force feeding".
It all boils down to this: immediately following your session, ingest some fast digesting carbs along with some fast digesting proteins. Then do some low level cardio for approximately 20 minutes. The carbs will cause a spike in insulin, which will usher those carbs along with the proteins right into the the recovering muscles. The cardio will help to transition your body into an aerobic metabolism, thereby mobilizing fat stores. Because the fat cells will begin releasing their stored energy about the same time your insulin spikes, they cannot take up the circulating insulin-carried glucose. Satisfies the immediate catalyst replenishment demands, begins replinishing glycogen stores, and initiates the protein synthesis process almost immidately. here's a quick read on "force feeding concept":
http://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/for...
Hope this was helpful and easy to understand.
Wow great post brother read the link I'm gonna start trying that force feeding and go on the 5x5 workout see if I can put some more size on again excellent information it amazes me how much science is really involved in bodybuilding!
AnonYou're very welcome. I'm a bit of a nerd about something's; when I get into something, I try to really understand it. Just glad to see my education isn't going to waste after switching careers a few years back.
1jakd_hipySomeone give this man a +1
Done, shoulda done it the first time I saw it. But I was too busy reading the link and saving it! LOL ;-P
Anonmuch appreciated fellas! best i can do to contribute is play to my strong points - sports nutrition and exercise physiology.
FR sent. Maybe you could point me in the right direction on some Deadlift and Squat techiques. I seem to pull pretty well but I'm sure I could do better with some guidance.
1jakd_hipyYou can send any questions my way as well brother. I've been fortunate enough to train with some of the guys from Westside and am looking at an internship in February with one.
FR sent, and one from Mrs.Fits account. She was still logged in when I first sent it. LOL ;-P
1jakd_hipyI thought we were already friends but I welcome the whole FIT family
AnonWill do my best bro
Looking at your chest training, yes you could be tearing the muscles down, causing more damage than can be repaired before your next workout. Your doing like 10 chest exercises, yea too much. Drop back to 3-4 multi joint exercises maybe a 5x5 routine for a few weeks and check your results.
Agree! Up the calories...cardio off the fat. I hit every part 2 time a week and low calories my growth sliws or halts. If it turns to fat....complex carbs instead of cheap carbs. 2grams protein per lb of bodyweight.