-2 Test/EQ cycle question.
I have read so many good things about this type of cycle. It's debated, but the people who are doing it seem to really love it and love the results.
I've been trolling 250 Cyp for weeks, had blood tests. No side effects whatsoever. I am ready to begin this Test-e/EQ cycle: Here are my questions:
From what I have read, this high EQ cyle, run for 18 weeks followed by two weeks off followed by four weeks Nolva/Clomid/HCG is highly effective. Slow, but effective, and that the muscle gained is true quality AND the effects last beyond the end of the cycle itself. The HCG is to help prevent loss of muscle during PCT and help restore testicles to their original shape if they've shrunk apparently.
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Can I switch directly from 250 Cyp to 400 Test-e and 750 EQ?
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What about ADDING Test-c as in; c200/e200/eq750. Low side effects with the e and the eq. Im already on c with none. OR
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Should I do even lower test? Yes I know but Ive read this in several recent unrelated posts. I believe it has to do with the Test e being....faster acting?. low test plus high eq (not to exceed 900 apparently). And yes, I know everybody's different. I'm simply posing the questions. So...
FROM. Trolling 250 Test Cyp
TO:
18 weeks. 400 Test-e/750-850-Equipoise
2 weeks. Off
4 weeks Day 1 Clomid 250mg + Nolvadex 60mg
10 days Clomid 100mg + Nolvadex 40mg
10 days Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg +
1000IU HCG 3 times each week
Yes?
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I see this shit way too often. Though I haven't officially been a member long but I've lurked for a while. I've seen so many wanting to jump in the deep end. You come here for advice and get upset when the majority doesn't agree with you. Take it from actual professionals in the field. People who compete at the PRO level and some of them started where you are. Many of these guys learning after decades of experience on what does and doesn't work. We're not trying to bash you or down you but honestly you and others push back and get butt hurt when we give the truth. Again if you cannot properly diet and train while natural, you 100% will not do it on AAS. Especially if you have no idea what you're doing. AAS are not fat burners. You want to jump in on AAS, by all means. But we warned you running AAS while being obese is not a good idea. It's a heart attack waiting to happen. Good luck
Given your age and stats if true, I wouldn't want to be fucking around with a heavy cycle like that. I don't think your family wants to bury you any time soon. Not to be a dick but just being honest here.
Wtf lol your not ready for EQ bro.
Dam i just read the other comments lol you dont even know the difference between test e and c dog. Eq is my favorite cycle but 750 nah 600 is good and will give u nice lean gainz.
The difference is in the suspension and the length of it's half life. In asking a question it does not necessarily mean I am ignorant in terms of the subject, I am simply attempting to use this forum to get answers.
I disagree with the idea that a person who is trying to lose weight while building muscle should avoid AAS until such weight is lost. In fact, I'd bet if any one of you woke up tomorrow with a big belly, the first place you'd go is to get some gear to help handle it.
AAS helps build muscle and burn fat. That's what I am trying to do. No one has ever given a biological reason WHY some people insist AAS is only for those already in shape. Isn't getting in shape sort of the entire point?
Anyway, I've been dropping weight since March, hitting the gym and getting my diet squared away. With all of that said I would still like to know, how many blood donations do I need to make and how often, if I am running 800 EQ? Also, can I start at 800 or should I ramp up?
You're correct. I found this site and with research understood that AAS was not the silver bullet I had hoped for. actually, dieting and exercise improved my natural T levels allowing me to fend off TRT for several years.
You are misguided if you think is going to help you lose 80lbs any faster, you are mistaken. All it will do is increase your BP, cholesterol, RBC, etc.
Here are the steps you need to take:
1) You make a healthy lifestyle choice.
2) You modify your diet to match your new lifestyle. This isn't a fad diet; this is your new reality.
3) You become more active, hike, play pickleball, go to the gym, what have you. Binge watching Netflix is no longer your lifestyle.
4) if and when you want to lean out after your BMI is normal then, if body "sculpting" is still your desire, revisit this.
Have you ever been cut off by an ass hole that is speeding down the road 20mph over the traffic speed, weaving in and out of lanes, only to be the car in front of you some minutes later at a light? That's you. AAS isn't going to do anything measurable in helping you reach your goal. But it will put you more at risk.
" AAS was not the silver bullet I had hoped for."
I never said it's a silver bullet. Nothing is. With a reasonable diet at 2Kcal and exercise plus 250 Cyp I lose about five pounds a week. That's a lot. The Cyp is definitely helping. Wanting to bump up the game is my only crime. But to be fair, lets go down your list:
"You are misguided if you think is going to help you lose 80lbs any faster, you are mistaken. All it will do is increase your BP, cholesterol, RBC, etc."
Incorrect on two points, the third is easily handleable.
This is from "Ask The Doctor" from The Harvard Medical Review, April 2012:
"Q. I am 70 years old, and since I started taking testosterone to boost below-normal levels of that hormone, my LDL and HDL levels have dropped. What's the cholesterol–testosterone connection?"
A. Testosterone is a hormone that promotes sex drive in both sexes and sperm production in men. It also supports the growth and strength of muscle and bone. There is some scientific evidence to suggest that low testosterone levels contribute to cardiovascular disease, and there is ample evidence that as testosterone levels rise, cholesterol levels fall. So the drop in your LDL and HDL levels makes sense."
BP can be counteracted with BP medication like Liprinosil, just as HCG or PCT meds counteract AAS side effects.
You claimed, "You are misguided if you think [AAS] is going to help you lose 80lbs any faster." contradicts one of the most well established mechanisms of Test which is that it helps burn fat. I hesitate to say, "everyone knows that" but...
If you are unaware of this fact:
This is from the non-profit newsletter of The Endocrine Society, June 2019:
"It’s well known that testosterone therapy changes body composition, during which patients lose fat mass and increase muscle mass. Testosterone therapy improves the structure and function of mitochondria, resulting in more energy expenditure."
This is from the National Institutes of Health from a summary of a clinical study titled, Testosterone and Weight Loss The Evidence
"The implication of testosterone therapy in management of obesity... is of paramount clinical significance, as it produces sustained weight loss without recidivism."
This is from Medical News Today referencing a study of overweight men and testosterone.
"Overall 20% bodyweight reduction
The men who received testosterone lost on average 23 kilograms (kg) (equivalent to 20% body weight) during the study period, while those who did not receive treatment gained an average of 6 kg.
Body mass index (BMI) correspondingly decreased by an average of 7.6 points in those who received testosterone therapy, compared with an increase of 2 points in the control group.
Waist circumference, which is a risk factor for cardiometabolic disease, decreased by an average of 13 centimeters (cm) in the treatment group, compared with a 7 cm increase in the control group.
The testosterone-treated men also had less internal (visceral) fat by the end of the study period. They may have had a lower risk of cardiovascular disease than those who did not receive treatment."
With respect I suggest you check your sources. I trust very few but my wheelhouse are studies either in medical journals, the NIH, .edu studies (the .edu studies are often theses done by PhD students).
The failures you may have seen or heard about are probably simply due to other factors like diet or commitment at the gym. Without these two anchor points there really is no point.
All of that said, I have decided NOT to do a heavy EQ cycle due to the risk factors. I have instead decided to bump up my Cyp to 500 for 12 weeks, add 300 Deca for ten weeks, 20 Dbol twice daily for four weeks, .5 Adex2xwk, Nolva for PCT, Liprinosil for BP and just keep and eye on everything.
"AAS isn't going to do anything measurable in helping you reach your goal."
You should try motivational speaking.
I never claimed that there was no benefit to testosterone, nor have I claimed that the studies are flawed. I claim your approach to them is flawed. You, at this point, can accomplish more without AAS, one of which is to increase your own natural production of Testosterone. Your attitude on using drugs to control BP and cholesterol exposes your "silver bullet" mentality.
You can lose the same 5lb a week without the added risk of AAS use. I am on doctors scripted TRT and know that if I am within normal range, I do not have the sides I've listed. I also know you're not going to a doctor, and you're not likely to be getting bloodwork done so you're apt to be out of range.
That's a full-on cycle, so you will experience sides and, you can no longer point to the studies to support your position.
Some 15 years ago, I was 265 lbs and had low T etc. I did as you did, thought steroids would be something to try, studied up on it, talked to a doctor, learned from people. But the conclusion I came to was to do the diet and exercise first. If I could prove to myself that I had it in me to eat clean, six meals a day, and work out religiously until my routine was a habit I did not want to break, then I would introduce AAS and benefit from it. (Yes, the book I recommended to you I stumbled upon and followed when I was looking as you have been of late.) I did everything as if I was on cycle, except the AAS. My results were amazing.
What I experienced was I lost fat and gained muscle (recomp). My weight dropped to 190 rather quickly. my T levels improved, as did my mood and sense of wellbeing and overall energy. I was also able to stop taking my maintenance meds. I ultimately chose not to start using AAS until a few years later when, alas, age caught up with me and I was put on TRT by my doctors. (I have cycled while on TRT) Check my pictures under my profile, I was in my late 50's then.
If you and I were on the same journey at the same time, the timeline would be about the same. You're racing ahead... but you're going nowhere fast. You're the guy weaving in and out of lanes, going 20mph faster than everyone else, putting your health at risk, only to be waiting at the same stoplight as me some miles down the road.
...but what do I know? I'm just a 64 year old fart.
First thing I would do if I woke up with a big belly would be to adjust my diet not deciding how much test or tren I need to run. If you can't get into shape without the use of steroids then you never will stay in shape because it is a clear sign that someone lacks the discipline and diet knowledge, it is not that hard to get into shape without the use of drugs. Pretty easy to get into the low teens bodyfat without drugs. Gets difficult from there getting into single digits where steroids can help spare lean tissue due to the more extreme dieting methods that need to be employed.
Here is a biological reason why you don't use steroids until you are in the appropriate physical condition to use them. If you wan't to gain more muscle you use steroids when you are in shape, If you want to gain more fat than muscle use them when you are not in shape.
https://www.eroids.com/forums/general/general-talk/scientific-proof-lowe...
I read the post and all it says is that the gains while overweight may not be as much as when not. It says nothing about bad effects, nor does it cite any articles or medical publications so you can't be sure it's even true. I'm not saying it isn't but every study I've read from the National Institutes of Health, Clinical Trials.gov etc ALL point to AAS as being beneficial for obese or overweight men. Specifically, in terms of well-being, and physically, the weight loss of the placebo groups lost both lean mass and fat, while the AAS group only lost fat, while maintaining lean mass.
My point being; if there are many benefits but not AS many, that's not really an argument against cycling, is it?
My honest, guess is that people who are overweight may take steroids and start eating a bunch of protein and not hitting the gym and they gain weight. Anyway, I'm still unclear on why anyone would advise someone who's overweight against using steroids if all of the studies, and I'm talking about actual studies, point to it being very beneficial.
I would be very curious to see any articles or studies attached to that post you referred me to.
Show me on government study that describes cycling and extremely high doses of AAS
If your stats are correct. I'd work on that way before jumping in on a cycle.
I'm aware of the blood donation aspect of the cycle. It's true I'm new to doing this particular type of cycle but I wasn't born yesterday. I've had some good mentors and from what I can tell this cycle has low side effects, good slow gains, you keep what you gain, and with the right PCT I don't see why this is such a bad first cycle. If you could be more specific.
You are nowhere near ready to take this on. Lift and lose some bodyfat first then look into what a first cycle should be.
This sounds like it's your first cycle......... why would you want to add in another compound? Do you know the risks and side effects? Also we have no prior info no stats, what your goals are, how long you have been training, any previous cycles, what your body fat percentage is. Your not going to get to far with helpful info unless you provide us with the same. Whats your current diet? Macros? Are you doing any cardio? Do you know eq Raises your red blood cells dramatically and you should be donating blood if you are running eq for this long?
More info needed before you get any input from members that actually know what they are doing.
If this is your first cycle which sounds like it is. Stick with the test 250mg for 12 weeks then run your pct as you have laid out above. The aim of the game is to get maximum out of the minimum and to stay as healthy as possible.