+ 4 Test Prop first cycle
WARNING! The views, expressions and opinions are that soley of ShreddedCheddar and should not be taken lightly! ShreddedCheddar does not condone the use of Test Prop for a first injectable cycle to everyone. Proper research, situations and goals are required as well as maturity and understanding of the compounds and risk involved with such cycle.
Yea that's right! I fucking said Test Prop for a first cycle! Now the reason I am posting this is to get some of your opinions. Especially the veterans. So for the majority of you guys that are regulars on here, I'm sure you've been keeping up with some things that we as community are experimenting with. Masteron and it's anti-estrogenic effects. Boldenone as base for cycles. Anabolic threshold, Pinning Tren Ace subQ and so on. Now I believe there is more than one way to skin a cat and the hormones that we use are more versital than we think.
I know this isn't really an experimental thing but we DO get caught up on the same'ol same'ol. The Test E or Cyp for a first cycle. I have no problem with that what so ever. I would never suggest Sustanon for a first cycle. But my point with this is Test Prop for a first cycle can be okay too. This would be my recommendation for a first cycle with Test Prop.
Weeks 1-4 50mg EOD
Weeks 5-12 100mg EOD
PCT is basic protocol.
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
On cycle AI will be discussed with user.
I know that there is a few negatives to this.
1. Pip. Well eventually the user will have to pin Test Prop at some point. So deal with it. He can take the standard steps to cut down on pip. Heating the oil. Heating pad. Ibprophen. Also he will be pinning just a small amount so pip wouldn't be that bad anyway. With some of the brewmasters we have Test Prop has become very tolerable.
2. Injection sites. Yes. They will have to rotate out several sites. Glutes, delts, quads. I do understand that. But like said above, small amounts of heated oil will be pinned. I wouldn't think it be any worse than 1ml of E or Cyp in a delt or glute.
3. Budget. Running Test Prop you'll be going through bottles pretty quick but with the price of Prop it should come out to about the same as a 12 week cycle of E or Cyp. Plus your only running 50mg EOD for the first 4 weeks so that saves you a little.
This is where I guess my opinion/idea comes in at. If a user is ruining Test Prop and something happens to where he/she has to bail on the cycle weather it be the wife busted them, they can't handle it or they have to adjust the dosage, it can be done and handle quickly.
1. If you have to stop the cycle you can start PCT in 3 days. If you're running Cyp or E you have to wait 2 weeks.
2. If the cycle is going smoothly and the user feels that they can increase the dose then he can do so and not have to wait for said amount of time if running E or Cyp.
3. If the cycle is to "intense" and the user feels that they need to back off the can adjust dosage and results to tapering back can come quicker.
4. The majority of people that I have talked to said that they hold less water with Prop. If the user is a "Water Baby" and holding water is a concern then maybe Prop is a better option for them.
Let's look at our advice to first time Tren user. We always tell them to use Tren ace so if they need to adjust the dosage they can quickly as oppose to using E. Why not the same thing with Test. Now I'm not saying this would be the recommendation to every first time user. It would maybe vary from case to case.
I'm certain that a lot of you guys will not agree with this I will probably be negged but I'm just trying to think outside of the box a little bit. Thank you guys for your time and opinions. I looked forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely, Cheddar:)
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I love how the light bulb goes off in the inexperienced and they break off with what they think is a stroke of genius. If you call introducing a virgin user to discomfort, pain, and other side effects being innovative then by all means pioneer your little heart out. Think you both know what sort of response you'll get from this forum tho.
Once again you're putting entirely to much emphasis on what you perceive as important to me... I'm not here for positive responses or self gratification for helping others.... But keep on keeping on babe you got this!
X2.
I understand that 100%. But if that's the case then other topics that have been posted on here are just as dangerous. Some Newb will see Vikings post and think its cool to run EQ as a base and he has no experience with it what so ever. Or a first time Tren user that has been paranoid of the sides of Tren sees that RoidNoid has had better success pinning Tren Ace subQ and goes and does that not ever having any experience pinning peps SubQ.
Bro neither one of those posts have "..for a first cycle" incorporated anywhere in them
I've read the articles and I'm vary aware of that. But just like you said someone will see this and think it's okay cause Cheddar have me the okay. Well... Somebody will see those post and say Viking gave me the okay. Noid gave me the okay and will do it without question. That is why I put the big bold red letters up top stating that this is just my thoughts and opinions. Now hopefully if they do see this they will read and take the information and learn from it.
The EQ post of mine was not an advisory speech in any sense bro.... in fact it was an open ended post asking for members views on the subject purely for the reasons being outlined on this debate right here.
These days i tend to only be "advisory" with nutritional style posts.. never with compounds, in fact i never list dosages now on cycles pages purely for the reason stated "viking said so" too much of my stuff from the early days got abused badly so thats when i decided to change tactics and only get specific with a chosen few in PM, and more recently strictly the MOD forum.
If the noobs could see the conversation i had with bodybuilder a few weeks back regarding an advanced cycle we would be having a bunch of funerals to attend methinks lol
I know your post wasn't an advisory post. Neither is mine. Mine was made for debate, opinions, feedback and views. Trying to get back to the basics of this community was made for. Reviewing sources and learning.
Stay cool..... im not your enemy bro
I know you're not my enemy. Never said you were. Never even thought that you were. You know I have nothing but love you.:)
The terminology "eq as a base" is too easily misunderstood. The base of something is the foundation. It is what everything else is built around. Testosterone should be the "base" of every cycle.
Eq is a great compound for almost any beginner to add, as the side effects are minimal and virtually unoticed. It's not something we advise commonly to a first time for several reasons.
As for the tren... Come on bro... The difference between your article and theirs is that you are targeting first timers with prop out the gate and saying to "deal with the sides and the pip". You can't just "deal" with pip in a virgin muscle the same way you do with you or I. Our muscles are used to having foreign material injected into it and at varying frequencies, and we have the experience needed and technique down for "dealing" with it. First times do not. Bottom line...
I honestly don't know how many times I have to say I'm not recommending this to EVERY first time user. It's all going to depend on the situation of the person like I've stated several times.
I also agree that Test should be the base to every cycle. But some other people seem to think different. Just like I'm thinking different on this. My article.
As far as the Tren.... Come on bro... You know somebody could see that and say "Sweet! The Trensomnia won't be so bad if I pin subQ" and they go and do it.
The pip issue once again like I said is understandable. But at some point they are going to be pinning Prop anyway. The human body is an amazing thing and can adapt to things very quickly. Y'all act like it's going to take them months for them to be able to tolerate Prop. I also understand the point of saying I've had more experience in pinning and giving my muscles time to get use to having a foreign oil injected into then. You also have had plenty of time to do so but your body didn't like the Super P you putting in it. So doesn't that mean it doesn't matter how much time you've had to get used to having foreign oil injected into them.
I never said "deal with the sides" I said "deal with the pip". But they can take the steps to cut down on the pip. Heating the oil. Heating pad. Ibuprofen. All that good shit. The main point of the argument was if they are doing well with the cycle they can increase dosage and the results will come quicker than with E or Cyp. If they can't handle the sides they can decrease the dosage and the sides and subside quickly. Again just like when we tell people about running Tren Ace vs Tren E. I'm not trying to compare Test and Tren as the same thing by no means at all.
Pain is a "side" effect brother... Whether you call it pip or not. And the pip for the first cycle is generally 10x worse than later cycles. I still remember my first one. My ass cheek swole up so big it was almost comical. I couldn't sit on that side of my ass and could barely climb into the truck. I remember the first time I hit scar tissue because I was pinning eod. I also remember when my dick stopped working because my estro got out of control bc the prop converted more quickly and my AI dose wasn't appropriate.
These are the things you're setting people up for by encouraging a first cycle of prop. You know well enough that all of these things are avoidable IF precautions are taken, whether it be thru technique or AI. It's easy for you to say, 'just do this or that' bc you've somewhat mastered that aspect in your level of experience. I can't place enough emphasis on how 'experience' plays the most important role here.
Take a second to think back to when you and I first started putting together your cycle here. Then think about how we give advice in the cycle logs. How many times do you see someone say, test only or one compound at a time? You know why we do that. It's because the user needs to build an understanding of what's going on as well as learn and devolve techniques for pinning and ancillary support. It's a bit of a learning curb and a gradual thing, with the biggest hurdle being convincing them that more is not better. The more we write topics like yours here, the. Ore people begin to forget that and find reasons and excuses for deviating from that thought process.
You keep saying that you don't encourage this, but you didn't add that bolden statement until you got all the neg feedback. Even still, it's kinda like sugar coating it. You say one thing but do another.
Sorry, brother, but I disagree with this idea.
Agreed
Tons of validity to this idea. Obviously, as you mentioned, not for every first cycle but some very good points made. Good write up IMO!
I love short esters, it took me a long time to realize this and realize why. It all came about due to running into issues on cycle. The bottom line is we are people, we live life. Life has some unavoidable things that get thrown into it when you least expect them. So much versatility in short esters. Run into an issue, pretty simple fix. Again, good write up!
Anon@ Hwood I agree bro. Only in situations where the user is mature and responsible and thoroughly educated in all AAS related topics would I be cool with Prop first cycle. If they are then if be open to advising a new user on prop. Aside from that it normally is safe to generalize first cycles to long ester test only. I know within 3or 4 PMs or conversations whether the maturity level is going to be there or not.
@SC
I have found that using Prop as a taper has helped all of my buddies and me(for fertility pct) go into pct in a much more controlled environment. Knowing as precisely as possible when the compounds exit ur system leads males to a sooner PCT but also there is less of a drop in energy and mood. Especially when done with a true tapering off cycle with TestProp. Gradually dropping the dose. This last round of my fertility pct( I am still on my protocol) I tapered off and there was less of a drop off for me. I transitioned smoothly into my PowerPCT and ran large doses of HCG and I have to say I have never ever felt as "normal" before during a PCT attempt. I had an abundance of energy and libido. I tucked up and didn't get bloods to prove my protocol but based on feeling alone it was a major success.
Using compounds like Prop while transitioning into PCT has my full
Endorsement and depending on the individual I would consider first time users to utilize Prop's precision for this reason.
AGREED! Prop kick and/or taper is the ideal introduction to prop
Thanks for the input, Bro and I couldn't agree with you more on the tapering! I used a Prop taper out with my last run and I felt so much better than I did with previous cycles where I stopped pinning and waited 2 weeks for PCT. I'm with you. Prop taper out will also have my full support. I can also agree with you on the maturity aspect of the person that said cycle would be in regards to. If they know that, yes Prop can have some pip. Yes you will have to rotate sites. Yes you will have to pay attention to your body and listen to what it is telling you. If they can understand these things and they have a situation like I explained below then yea we can talk about Prop being a first cycle. But as far as everyone else then they would need to stick with the standard suggested E or Cyp.
I will continue to hold my ground that short cycles should be later in your cycle history (cycle 4 or 5) for the reasons of learning compounds and how your body responds (PIP, Gyno etc...), pinning technique,site rotations as well as breaking sites in
The whole "everyone is doing it anyway" argument does not fly with me and does not excuse responsibility to try and keep everyone safe long term as well as short
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/a-safe-and-effective-pa...
I agree with that and this is something that wouldn't suggest to EVERY first timer by no means at all. Like I said it would vary from case to case. Now as far as me in the cycle logs talking to first time user I will still always suggest E or Cyp for the first cycle. No front loading. No kicker or anything of that of that nature.
Here's and example of a scenario that I'm experiencing personally with a training partner. He was given a first cycle by someone and had him running Sustanon and Deca. After 5 weeks he had to come off because people were starting to question his gains (Due to his job) and temper flare ups. stuff of that nature. No pct. No nothing. Now as a first "real cycle" he is running Test Prop at
Weeks 1-4 50mg EOD
Weeks 5-9 100mg EOD
Weeks 10-12 50mg EOD
He is running Adex for his AI.
He is getting gains but not at an alarming rate. They are nice steady gains. Not to where people are like"OMG! You're getting so big so quick! Are you using steroids?" He is also one of those people that naturally hold a lot of water. The "Water Baby" that I mentioned above. He is actually shedding a lot of that water. Now that could also be because we increased his water intake.
He isn't having a problem pinning. His pip is very minimal. Very tolerable. He hasnt had any problems whatsoever with this. He's not blowing up and putting on massive amounts of weight. Which is what he wanted.
We've also talked about on a couple of other post on here that first timers, do they really need 500-600mg for a first cycle? Who said that 500-600mg was the magic number? We've talked about first timers doing just fine with 250-400mg of Test E or Cyp. Now if a guy is running Prop at 100mg EOD what is he really getting? 400mg a week and still getting nice gains?
I am quite sure there are those that can roll with an early prop cycle... MY concerns are that a lot of the young guys seek the answers they WANT and not the ones they NEED and will look at this post and say to themselves "Cheddar gave the ok for 1st cycle prop"...
I agree that 500-600 has somehow become the magic # and have seen guys get more than they had bargained for on 400
If the user was an older guy (mid 30's) that's been lifting seriously for several years and has a certain concerns like I've mentioned them yea we'll talk about it. But I wouldn't suggest it to a 20-25 year old that's been lifting for 3 years. I believe in the whole 25/5 rule. You have to have been lifting seriously for 5 years and you're at least 25 years old.
I'm with you. For one reason. Test prop gives me body aches for some reason. If haven't run many compounds but it's the only one that does it to me. I would have never cycled again if I ran test prop as my first. I've tried many sources, different carrier oil and the effect is always the same. Adding in the pip and management of the sites, depending on the user it could be too much.