+ 4 Test Prop first cycle
WARNING! The views, expressions and opinions are that soley of ShreddedCheddar and should not be taken lightly! ShreddedCheddar does not condone the use of Test Prop for a first injectable cycle to everyone. Proper research, situations and goals are required as well as maturity and understanding of the compounds and risk involved with such cycle.
Yea that's right! I fucking said Test Prop for a first cycle! Now the reason I am posting this is to get some of your opinions. Especially the veterans. So for the majority of you guys that are regulars on here, I'm sure you've been keeping up with some things that we as community are experimenting with. Masteron and it's anti-estrogenic effects. Boldenone as base for cycles. Anabolic threshold, Pinning Tren Ace subQ and so on. Now I believe there is more than one way to skin a cat and the hormones that we use are more versital than we think.
I know this isn't really an experimental thing but we DO get caught up on the same'ol same'ol. The Test E or Cyp for a first cycle. I have no problem with that what so ever. I would never suggest Sustanon for a first cycle. But my point with this is Test Prop for a first cycle can be okay too. This would be my recommendation for a first cycle with Test Prop.
Weeks 1-4 50mg EOD
Weeks 5-12 100mg EOD
PCT is basic protocol.
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
On cycle AI will be discussed with user.
I know that there is a few negatives to this.
1. Pip. Well eventually the user will have to pin Test Prop at some point. So deal with it. He can take the standard steps to cut down on pip. Heating the oil. Heating pad. Ibprophen. Also he will be pinning just a small amount so pip wouldn't be that bad anyway. With some of the brewmasters we have Test Prop has become very tolerable.
2. Injection sites. Yes. They will have to rotate out several sites. Glutes, delts, quads. I do understand that. But like said above, small amounts of heated oil will be pinned. I wouldn't think it be any worse than 1ml of E or Cyp in a delt or glute.
3. Budget. Running Test Prop you'll be going through bottles pretty quick but with the price of Prop it should come out to about the same as a 12 week cycle of E or Cyp. Plus your only running 50mg EOD for the first 4 weeks so that saves you a little.
This is where I guess my opinion/idea comes in at. If a user is ruining Test Prop and something happens to where he/she has to bail on the cycle weather it be the wife busted them, they can't handle it or they have to adjust the dosage, it can be done and handle quickly.
1. If you have to stop the cycle you can start PCT in 3 days. If you're running Cyp or E you have to wait 2 weeks.
2. If the cycle is going smoothly and the user feels that they can increase the dose then he can do so and not have to wait for said amount of time if running E or Cyp.
3. If the cycle is to "intense" and the user feels that they need to back off the can adjust dosage and results to tapering back can come quicker.
4. The majority of people that I have talked to said that they hold less water with Prop. If the user is a "Water Baby" and holding water is a concern then maybe Prop is a better option for them.
Let's look at our advice to first time Tren user. We always tell them to use Tren ace so if they need to adjust the dosage they can quickly as oppose to using E. Why not the same thing with Test. Now I'm not saying this would be the recommendation to every first time user. It would maybe vary from case to case.
I'm certain that a lot of you guys will not agree with this I will probably be negged but I'm just trying to think outside of the box a little bit. Thank you guys for your time and opinions. I looked forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely, Cheddar:)
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My experience with prop (longer tapers) the pip seemed to get worse after 4-5 weeks, I also have noticed differences in what source the oil came from as well as even one pin site agreeing with prop much better than others.
I believe for most noobs it would likely cure them from wanting to cycle again in the future. With the amount of guys here that are too young to begin with maybe that isn't so bad either.
false I hold tons of water with prop. this is a myth. for some reason sustanon makes me retain less water I've noticed but cyp is good too. this is the one thing that bothers me is people think prop causes less bloat. this is not true
Sust turns me into the Michelin Man LOL
GearofWarJust as an aside, I get fairly heavy bloat from Prop too. Cyp seems to bloat me least of all Test esters.
Then that is your experience player. I've ran prop and had no water issues at all. I have several friends that compete and they are the same way. But I also do know a couple people that hold water with prop and E but not with Cyp. Just because your experience is different than other people's does not make my observation false. The guy that is running this exact cycle right now is the said "Water Baby" and it has came off him beautifully. Different strokes for different folks.
May not mean much but I completely agree. My first cycle was Prop at 100mg for 8 weeks. Loved it so much I ran it for my 2nd cycle. Nice thread.
Test Prop in women... just to add to the knowledge being shared here..
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/ladies-lounge/test-prop-in-women-for...
There is so much quality debate in this thread. I love it when somebody puts out an informed idea for scrutiny.
Looking back I personally would have started at 300mg of a long entered test for 12 weeks. I personally believe that the pin rotation would be too much for a first or even second timer. Everybody is different and the prop out of your system quicker in case it doesn't work out is sound but I just think a lower 'recommended' test e or c level would cut back on a lot of the negative side effects anyway.
I just want to take a second and thank you guys for taking the time and writing your information, thoughts and opinions. I only posted this to be a friendly debatable topic. Anyone that has seen me in the cycle logs knows that the standard first timer cycle is what I always suggest to anyone at any age. (Appropriate age) They also know that of the user is to young I explain why using AAS at this point in time is a bad idea. I would kill to have the test levels of an 18 year old and not juicing. My main reason again in posting this is depending on the situation of the potential user is they do have another option rather than Test E or Cyp but they NEED TO KNOW the potential risk that comes with a Test Prop cycle. Now posting this is not a bad idea IMO because if someone does see this they will see high ranking members and people that have experienced something similar and can gauge from there. I was an unlucky soul and did not have this information available to me. I wrote my entire experience and came here humble and showed humility. I see both sides to everyone and I don't disagree with a single one of you guys.
Doss- You know I highly respect you and your views and knowledge. You helped me from the beginning when I first came on here and I've never forgot that. I don't think that this should have not been posted. It called learning. We all need to do it. I support your thoughts and opinions. You're still my nigga and I still have your back regardless.Thank you, Playa.
DeadLifter- Thank you for voicing your experience! That's the kind of feedback I was looking for.
ChemDawg- Thank you for all of your feedback as well!
Rusty- I agree with the points that you made that younger newer users are not familiar with site rotation and sterility and things of that nature. I maybe been a little bit if a dick when I said deal with the pip. I've ran some blends and that shit put me down for the count. I handled it for about 6 weeks and had to back off. I also wish a lot of the younger guys would understand that it's not a miracle oil and you just don't grow overnight. It takes proper lifting and proper diet as well. AAS is nothing but tool. How we use that tool is up to us
Hollywood- I always appreciate your input and the fact that you hold no punches when giving your opinion. Thank you for continuing to keep an eye on this thread and voicing your thoughts.
Anbro- You know how I feel about certain things and you've always been on the same level as me since day one. Thank you for your contributions and rebuttals as well. They do not go unnoticed. Thank for also responding to several people since I was not able to. It was the exact same things I would have said.
This is a GOOD post bro, unfortunately debatable topics can sometime take a turn on a site full of juicers LOL!
Come at me, Bro! I'm on Tren! You don't want none this, Nugga! Hehehehehe.
I'm on the tren train myself BIG BOY! :))
Bahahahaha! Fucking epic!;)
RustyhookerI'd disagree and in forums i always try to get newbs on long Esters. Tgey don't yet understand rotation, pip and sterility. All forms of unsterile actions are compounded with more frequency. Meaning, your body can fight back easier if not bombarded. Yes, it is possible to run prop but in my opinion why be slave to a pin? My first cycles were dimpke 1 time a week injections...not twice or eod for scientific optimal broham talk. I always kept at 185-190 easily on lil ol 300/week. No hassles. No pip. Jyst eat and grow! Folks on here daily post stats proving tgey couldn't find calories even with a map. So compound that with the frustration of multi pins.
Good start at controversial post!
I think the biggest problem with the prop for the first time user is gonna be the frequency of pinning.. I Remeber when I did my first test cycle I would cringe when I had to pin which was only twice a week.. I can't imagine pinning ed or eod for my first cycle, just to much anxiety. As for the pip, I haven't had a whole lot with prop in general so I think that is a case by case bases. If they can handle the frequency and pip I would say it would be fine.. Good post, ( I wanted to type abaddon, but I'll just say cheddar.. Lol)
Just my 2 cents. Im comming into the last 3 weeks of my 1st cycle. I tried to kick start with prop and just tough out the pip. But I ended up giving up on the prop after the first week. I just hurt everywhere and it took so long for the PIP to go away I would have had to start pinning muscles that were still sore from the last one.
Based on my experience I wouldnt reccommend for a first timer to try prop. I would have found it very discouraging if I had to try to continue thru all that PIP in the beginning before getting to see any results.
with all that said I will most likely try to do a taper now that my muscles are starting to get used to being pinned.
You're 28 been in powerlifting and it looks like you've done a little research based on your profile. Why did you choose the prop? I noticed you planned to run E and Eq at one point and ended with something else. You didn't have many responses to your cycle post so maybe now that we have some very knowledgable folks on this post you can get some good advise.
Honestly I just got impatient. My boss at the time had done a few cycles was always talking about how great it was. After listening to him everyday for months on end when I finally had the money to get started, I wanted to get started now damnit. I had lurked and read on here a good 6+ months and felt I had enough knowledge to give it a try. I thought I could just deal with the PIP.
Basically I was the know it all 20 something that was talked about below lol. But I quickly learned that plans, research, theory, advice etc is all just that. Its all fine and good to talk about cycling, but actually doing it and experiencing the results (both good and bad) is a totally different thing! The difference of being on the outside of the bubble looking in dreaming, vs stabbing a 22g pin straight through that bubble lol POP.
This first cycle has ended up being Test E only. I was considering either EQ or Decca for my next cycle, but I don't remember having mentioned it before...you must be a mind reader.
Oh and thanx for the add in the Green room. I ended up figuring things out and the shoot went great
Basically Aro just wasn't working for me. At 12.5mg/day bloods showed my E2 at 28, but I felt like crap. I was getting some gyno too. I switched to letro and I actually feel better. Go figure. Gyno is going away also so things are good.
First I will start with I commend you for admitting your mistakes and understanding that education does aid in any AAS situation but for also admitting what 80% of all first runners do.... Run it regardless of what they've read. Most individuals... Hell almost all will take the I had to experience it before believing. Now you are more seasoned in the understanding of doing research and your next cycle will be more thought through. However, for those nay sayers, had your cycle had to end abruptly due to sides you would have had the advantage of starting PCT sooner running a short ester. Also had you been questioned or needed to be tested for employment purposes it would have been out of the system sooner. Oh and btw you are more than welcome for the acceptance... I've been away from here for a minute... Life has been extremely busy... However, I'm back now! Everyone who knows will tell you that's a great thing... Sometime :-) I look forward to your future cycle I will do my best to send the right people your way for advise.
BOOM! THERE IT IS!
Decision wasn't based on research or what others posted (this post primarily) Had this post been made 8-12 weeks before do you think it would have influenced his choice... Nope! But everyone's that has read this now retains more knowledge on the subject.
Exactly. Had to experience to believe. I'm glad it was just different test esters tho for sure! But ya moving forward I will take warnings and advice much more seriously. (It was totally on my own devices that I decided to try the kick start). Thanks for everything.
No but it is the primary reason ppl jump to short esters, stacks, tren etc... no patience
Two things none of us can fix.....STUPID OR PATIENCE... Hence why post like this are needed... What works for some will not work for all...
Thank you for your time and input. That's what I really wanted on this thread before it gets closed. Now I'm sure you chose to run Prop before reading this article and made the choice on your own terms. You also learned that Prop just wasn't for you. You were also trying to run Prop with Test E or Cyp I assume since it was only your first cycle. So that also tells me that's a lot of oil to try and pin and also using sites a lot more frequently. Which again you did all on your own and not by my opinions from this article and getting your input is exactly what I'm looking for and sharing your experience. Now I'm sorry that the Prop just wasn't for you. I do hope that the rest of your cycle was a success and the majority of your goals were met. Maybe in the next cycle or 2 you can look at using an oral as a kicker and maybe using Prop as a taper out if you decide to give it another try.
Ya along with Test E. It was a lot of oil and a lot of pinning. But also I feel my levels shot up faster than I was prepared for. Estrogen also shot up quickly and it was difficult dosing my AI. There were a lot of ups and downs the first couple weeks as a result. I spent a few days in bed with tanked E2, and a few days crying at the ASPCA commercials. Honestly I wish I hadn't tried to do so much up front (I was impatient) and had just let it come on slowly. That's what I plan to do in my next cycle. The rest has gone well tho, I did make good gains and enjoyed it overall, thanks.
So in reading the comments below it appears that some agree... Others disagree... Mostly based on the simple fact that it's not the norm it's not the way to handle a new person. That maybe true.. It's mostly not how you would handle a new person BUT if my memory serves me correctly it was established a long time ago that not all persons bodies, lives, situations are equal. What works for any member (advanced or new) may be completely different for 50% of the persons they advise.. I've been the unusual case... Started out just like everyone else and had completely out of the ordinary reactions... Made no sense to the best of the best on here.... Finally it boiled down to "well, you are just different and the norm isn't right for you. Looking back I'm glad I didn't get the average responses "oh well your new and a female you can only do this this and this"What kind of help or advise are we going to gain of we are limiting what we share on fear of some new guy reading it and trying it? Honestly if guy here is so naive that he would read this and say "oh I'm gonna do that" Then the last thing those dumbasses need to be running is gear. Research, discussions and education prove to be the best tools on choosing a first cycle... EVERYONE'S body is different and I believe providing more scenarios can be beneficial to the right person. But I'm just a girl, what do I know!
Actually the point "I" was making is that pinning technique and site rotation are acquired skills no matter who you are and virgin muscle is virgin muscle no matter who you are so take the turtles path and self educate through experience I.e. walk before you run
I do not doubt your approach and I will add it is the safe more educated approach. However as I stated above if an individual happens to be so irresponsible that they opt to take the road less traveled before proper reseach and advise offered, they honestly deserve the consequences that come along with being stupid. This site as well as others offer post after post on what the right thing to do is. Honestly I see absolutely no excuse to someone not being advised correctly. Yes, it's the hard nose approach but holding someone's hand when advising on AAS doesn't seem fair to those who are doing the reseach and trying to advise either. We all know that no matter what information put forth the majority of individuals have made up their mind what they will run regardless of the advise to do or not to do from any site member. In closing offering alternate avenues should be welcomed and appreciated by everyone (advanced or new). The reasons I've chosen to run AAS have nothing to do with why any other woman on here would choose to run so how could their approach be exactly the same as mine. It's not.. So for me I've needed and used the outside of the box approach. Did I do that with out proper research, reading, advise and backup.... HELL NO! Because I know, just as any member should that AAS isn't something you just start running and hope for the best. If you do... You need to stick with the shit at the health store.
If you haven't noticed this sight has been over run by youngsters whos very nature is irresponsible LOL!
There is no getting around that BUT what we CAN DO is be responsible ourselves with the information we dole out. As I stated earlier I don't subscribe to the "they're going to do it anyway" philosophy. I stand by it personally as well as in my position as MOD. Slippery slopes are just that... Slippery! And one should use the gift of foresight (if available) not just for the individual but for the entire community. The "tren trend" around here is ridiculous, its an advanced compound currently being used and abused by members who are years away (if ever) from using it. The new hot trend is TNE, again everyone jumping on "just because they can"
We had an 18 yr old post here the other day and I shut it down right quick. One of the members tried the "...but if he's going to do it anyway shouldn't we help him be safe?" My answer was "NO" Why? Because its tough enough dealing with the 20somethings (who know everything) and I do not wish to open the doors for the teenagers. STEROID SITE SELLS STEROIDS TO CHILDREN makes a great sound byte... Can we stop any of this? probably not... should we TRY? In my book YES!
Evil prevails when good men do nothing
My .02
I can absolutely agree with the "Tren trend" and the "TNE trend". That in my opinion is a patience thing. They think that just because Tren is so powerful that it will give them the overnight results and the body they want. That's bullshit. I compare it to herion. Oh you're a first time drug user and you want to do herion? Well then what's the point of doing weed? You won't get the same high cause you went and jumped straight on the hard stuff.
Thank you your .02 cents I generally give mine every chance I get. I agree and disagree on many levels with you on this topic so instead of cluddering up a post that I believe can be educational. I will simply say thank you for your opinion I respect that and I hope you can respect mine of not completely agreeing with you. Education is the key...
This is why we have posts like this, so we can ALL chime in with our .02. In fact I think this is one of the more civil posts we've had with different points of contention... As long as it doesn't get all WILD WEST up in here I'm all for strong debatable topics
I remember my first few times pinning, I didn't have the hand dexterity or muscle memory to pin smoothly, I had to constantly readjust my arm and hand. I guess pinning over time helped with that, after a while I was really proficient at it. It definitely is a learned skill that gets better with repetition. I eventually learned tricks like supporting my arm against myself or the counter, so it wasn't unsupported for a few minutes. If I didn't do that my arm would sometimes get fatigued and shake from being in an awkward position for minutes.
My history is a lot different than others. I don't recommend newbies to do this, but I used Test P and NPP for my first injectable AAS cycle. I was 28 and had lifted for a good portion of my life. I wanted to gain some lean muscle mass while losing BF%. I also have some issues with my back, so that is why I wanted to add the nandrolone. I felt like I did my proper research, I actually sat on this site and others for weeks planning before my cycle. I liked the idea of being able to adjust or discontinue a compound quickly if it was causing problems. I remember doing more oral cycles like M1T than I can count because I never had a reliable access to injectables before discovering places like eroids. I was an ex-dope fiend, so needles never bothered me, pinning 4 times a day was the norm. I also did a bunch of peptides but I wanted something better. I think EOD pinning can be done with ease when properly using the different sites around the body. My cycle was great, I hardly had any sides, just a little PIP at the beginning. I met my goals, the cycle did what I designed it to do. My back and joints felt awesome with the addition of the nandrolone. The Test and caber turned me into a sex machine. My BF went down and my muscles got stronger and bigger. The AI helped with the sides and PCT went good. I had a great experience since I did the proper research that was needed.
I think putting this up, even if it's just for feedback, is a bad idea... Bc you've been pinning for so long, you forget what's it's like to pin virgin muscles. A first timer simply is not ready for frequent pinning.
Everyone should have access to all the info available, it is what they choose to do with it that is important.
Not necessarily true, if you've noticed we don't allow talks of raws or brewing on the site so ppl can "chose what to do with it" ...and with that line of thought should it made available the proper way to cook crack or shoot heroin in the hopes that ppl will use it responsibly?
That stuff is already available on other sites. I just don't like the idea of punnishing everyone by not posting cycle info because we as a community are trying to protect a group of people from harming themselves. I believe the second main reason most of us come here is to discover and discuss the latest trends and gather information about AAS use, only behind the reviewing of sources. Many people choose to become members here because we have some of the most brilliant minds regarding AAS. I don't think censoring some topics to protect an immature group that probably isn't ready to be running AAS is the best way to utilize our members talents and progress this site.
That's right, and those are BB sites (which this is NOT) THAT distinction gets lost around here quite a bit... we have a broader demographic hence MORE responsibility
I do not see this post being censored whatsoever, its a good debatable topic... I just believe (if/when) possible save stupid ppl from themselves.... there have been countless occasions when some knucklehead posts up a ridiculous cycle. a dozen experienced members chime in to guide them and they go on to do what they want with everyone knowing they are heading for a trainwreck... We may not be able to stop it but we can at least steer away from condoning it
I can see your point. I don't necessarily dosagree with that, but it's not about censoring out certain topics per se. It's about trying to advise on the appropriate levels to ensure the experience is a good one. No ones goal is to experience discomfort, so that's what we aim for collectively at Eroids.
Look above at deadlifters comment above. That's first hand experience on virgin muscles and it's the typical reaction for first timers. That's why we don't propose this.
I think it being discussed in the open like this is a good thing. The negatives should be available to help dissuade the cherries from making crazy mistakes. As long as that is done, and they have the correct info to succeed, what they choose to do with it is there decision. No person should have the authority to decide what another should be doing to their body. Also, the community should continue to ask for stats and cycle history to guide members in the right direction.
I agree with your statement. What I disagree with is someone condoning or encouraging it by posting these sorts of topics, especially an ADV tag.
This isn't exactly "dangerous" but it's setting up a person for an uncomfortable and possibly painful first cycle. There are reasons why we post and don't post certain things in the open forums.
This statement only leads be to believe that post by some as opposed to other are only allowed if it's worded exactly to specifications that I apparently wasn't given at sign up. Censorship at its finest.. Your ADV tag just changed my opinion on so much... And my opinion I'm still allowed to have without restriction.
Censorship? Really?? Tell us how you really feel. Lol. I remember when your ole man first hit the Eroids scene., and I remember him being pretty green and asking for advice. It wasn't that long ago, and who do you think helped him write up his first beginner level cycle here on Eroids and taught him those basics?
Don't take this the wrong way. I have a certain level of respect for both of you guys, but I can't help but notice that anytime I or anyone else has a disagreement with your ole man, you pop up on the scene trying to blast. He's man enough to post the thread, let him be man enough to handle to feedback, whether positive or negative.
Since my statement was twisted up, let me clarify:
Some things are not discussed openly because they are too easily mistaken and acted on by people that may not be ready for them. People sometimes have to be protected from themselves.
I'm not sure how much understanding you have of how AAS physiologically affects men, but imagine if this sort of censorship, as you put it, didn't take place. Because AAS suppresses testosterone and gonadal production, they have to be supplemented for a number of reasons.
When I used to roam the cycle log section, I couldn't even tell you how many times I came across posts by newbs in general and guys from other forums that were posting about oral only cycles or cycles without testosterone. Because a lot people come here for information and guidance, imagine if this was the sort of guidance they got and how fucked up they'd be, which is why I had originally created the beginner cycle group.
I don't know about you or the next person, but my reason for being here is to learn and to pass on what I've learned by helping folks.
Telling you how I really feel honestly isn't on my do list do... However, giving my opinion on certain topics is... For starters I'm going to say... I would back up just a moment before you start accusing me of going on blast! First of all had that been the case this topic would have been closed last night. If I wasn't in the loop on this particular subject I would have kept my .02 cents to myself. However, I personally know the person/ back ground/ and details into the individual running this cycle. As far as my knowledge of AAS I'm sure is not where near comparable to yours but I can assure you it's pretty vast... Let me go ahead and take the time to thank you for your assistance to my man... Obviously that's what you seek is some kind of recognition other wise why mention it... He's grown in what you call not that long, only difference is his willingness to think outside of the box... If all advise is I going to be done via pm I hope for the newbs sake that they hit up the right ADV tag... Cause that's basically the only people that know AAS! Side Note: I've always been here to learn, give advise and point folks in the right direction.... Respect I could give two shits about... I earn what is given and I will voice my opinion...
Lmao. This isn't the first comment of mine you wanted to put your two cents into for my disagreement with you "man", who obviously needs his woman to help with his arguments.
Come on Cheddar, tighten up brudda...
The point has nothing to do with that sort of recognition or your approval. Point is that he and I go back a bit on a certain level and you have a tendency to pop up with some BS when I challenge him. And the point of the tag is that it stand for something. Newbs actually look to ppl with certain tags and karma levels for advice. Unfortunately now a days karma level means nothing, and dot even get me started on that topic.
But you have a nice evening. Tell your ole man to feel free to hit me up instead of having you defend him in the forums.
Strong women only intimidate weak men I'm not defending him I'm defending the right to post a topic that YOU seem to think shouldn't be posted. Oh how easily things are shadowed in the light of true discussion. Also, I will continue to disagree with you if it's regarding a topic I believe can be an educational tool. I'm sure he will be hitting you up soon but not in regards to this subject or regarding myself. We are independent people with our own ideas..hehe it's actually cute that you see it that way... Once again thanks.... For everything you do! Now he's gonna think I'm defending his honor. I may never hear the end of this one :-)
Like I said "as long as it doesn't get all WILD WEST up in here..." I can shit this down if the tone doesn't change
(That means you too, Doss)
You got it boss man. Sometimes I let my pride get in the way...