Summer Lean Bulk Cycle + Training advice
Stats:
Age: 29
Height: 183cm
Weight: 93kg
BF: 11.5percent
I've got about 3 cycles in my belt, Test E, Test E+Anavar Kickstarter, Middle TestP/ Low Tren A. I have always had problems with aromatization, and thus my favorite of my all my cycles have been TestP/Low Tren A (300mg/250mg). My last cycle was 11 months ago. With that being said I am planning this for my next upcoming cycle but just have some questions. This will also be my largest of all my cycles.
Cycle Plan:
Test P Wk1-10 150mg E/W
Tren A Wk1-10 420mg E/W
Anavar Wk 1-10 30mg p/d
Adex 0.25mg E2D Wk 1-10 (increase/decrease on symptoms)
Prami Wk 1-10 0.125mg ED increase to 0.25 in 2 weeks (on symptoms)
HCG Wk 1-10 500IU a week
(injections will be done ED, except for HCG which will be done x2)
PCT:
Clomid: 50/25/25/25 (clomid makes me depressed higher than 50mg so trying to keep it low this time)
Nolva: 75/50/50/25
Some questions I have is should I bother running my anavar? or keep it for another cycle this will be my largest and might be un-necessary, I just have it on hand - and If I do run it is 10 weeks a stretch for my health or should I run it over 6 weeks, I have 2.5 grams in total.
Should I increase/decrease my tren? for my last cycle I made insane gains at 250mg except I was running higher test, and If I run it this high should I maybe reduce the cycle to 8 weeks? or just see how my BP ect is on cycle, at 250mg I had no noticeable physiological symptoms. I was planning to run it lower but a friend hooked me up with some extra vials, not planned for
My eating plan isn't an issue will be about 4.5k cals (extra 800 because im on cycle, extra 600 for bulking - normally eat 3.2k a day) every day 400p/350c/150f, all lean food split over 7 meals, I can post my plan up if anyone's curious
As for training I'm looking for inputs in this, I will not have work during these 10 weeks, so I was thinking of doing 3 days on 1 off and repeat. Chest/Tris/Delts(front/side), Legs/Abs, Back/Bi's/Delts(rear), then rest and repeat. Normally I just do a 4 day-split + 1 compound day (Chest/Tri's, Legs, Back/Bi's, Shoudlers, Rest, Compound day, rest) with off-body parts on the 4-day split days, but I'm looking to maximize my gains over this cycle, but I don't want to 'over-train' or under-train say my shoulders, if that could be an actual thing, does anyone have any good routines or advice on that?
Thanks everyone
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RustyhookerI wouldn't run that cycle at all. I'd stick to basic like test and eq.
I'll look into a cycle like that for a few weeks, i don't plan on starting until everything is decided and G2G, i'll come back in a week or two when I have done more valid research, thanks
Pct..
Try below as that should get you back on track after such a cycle :
HCG @ 1500iu EOD (2 weeks)
Toremifene @ 120/90/60/60/60
Clomid @ 100/100/50/50 (start this on the second week of PCT, half way through the HCG)
Aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD (5 weeks)
that pct is no where near strong enough, you will fail too recover if you run that cycle with that pct.
look into other serms.
everyday pinning for 10 weeks is advanced, tren or not, you will be very lucky if you dont get into any strife/ hiccups, you would need maximum rotation sites, sterility will be off utter importance, we can get too that later.
tren doesnt' aromatise, test prop at 150mgs per week is fuck all, 10 weeks of adex e2d is a lot of stress on your system.
not a fan of your hcg, more pinning.
you either bulk or you dont, its all foods, the cycle isnt ludacris, doses are actually some what sensible, im not going too freak out coz you wanna run tren, im on tren ace @ 200 mgs e2d atm, be prepared for a ride in this hot aussie summer mate.
we will see who else chimes in, go from there, im not writing it off at all, but lets get more input.
Hey mate I appreciate the reply, as for pinning as weird as it sounds I ended up enjoying the pinning ED last cycle, never been scared of needles I have 6 rotation spots glutes/quads/shoulders I used if that was sensible?. As for PCT do you mind just giving me a keyword and I will do some more of my own research thanks I do have more nolvadex and clomid on hand to be specific 2grams of each. For pinning HCG would E2D be more sufficient?
Should I drop the anavar or reduce the tren?
As for bulking how much OVER calories do you recommend? I maintain at around 3.2-3.4k ATM, would you recommend something like 2000 over, I would be happy to post up my eating planning any critique is much appreciated
you need more than 6 spots bro, i running test e test c, deca, and tren ace, im pinning it e2d and im using delts, triceps, glutes, ventros and quads thats 10 spots and i gonna have to add more.
as above, look into torem mate.
pct- 6 weeks, you dont like clomis but it is superior too the rest, my pct would loo like this -
clomid- 100-100-50-50-50-50
nolva- 60-40-40-40-40-40-20
aromasin- 12.5- 12.5-12.5
plus i would be using natural supps such as daa, etc.
hcg only mimics, if your nuts dont vanish/ dissapear, i woud use it towards the end as a blast maybe even in pct whilst running the aro.
i always say 5000 calories for bulking mate, no matter what the compounds.
I mix my tren a and test p into the same needle ensuring I sterilize it the whole way, and swap to a new un-used needle before injecting, is that alright to do or should I be pinning the tren a/test p separately - so I was doing 6 pins in total a week, so each spot is basically pinned once a week
Alright, unfortunately I'll bite the bullet and use clomid full, beat's not recovering, I'll pick up an extra gram of each before I start and use your protocol, I've got a source for torem so I'll do a-lot of research on it then pick some up. And I forgot to include but I will be having liver support/eaa's/creatine ect on cyc + daa during PCT. Also, should I be using HCG on PCT? I thought that it might prevent recovery as it might produce enough test to shut me down, or start PCT after last HCG injection?
I'll bump cal's up to 5.2k minimum and raise them 100-200 every week till end of cycle/see how I go on the scale/mirror
really appreciate the information mate, just trying to learn
all good mate, all the sterility in the world wont stop abscess, general guide is 7 days between hitting same spot again, after 4 weeks or so damage gets worse, 7 days might not suffice, look at www.spotinjections.com
add more sites, that is my biggest concern here, not the 4oomgs of tren a week or what ever, you dont want abscess, staph, cellulitis etc etc.
liver supps good. prostate- saw palmetto, monitor blood pressure daily.
training- time under tension, explode to the top, heavy compound movements for bulk and 45 minutes cardio a week.
as for the hcg, i dont like it and im not a fan, its just mimicing lh, tricking body too produce test, once usage is ceased, you crash again, i would maybe hit it last 2 weeks of cycle and 2 weeks going into pct whilst you have aromasin in the equasion, but again me personally, i wouldnt even use it.
clomid is one of those drugs, love hate relationship bit like tren- both can either make you or break you, results are superior in the right circumstances, but sides can be catastrophic, one thing about clomid ill ask you, ever had vision problems with it? night time blindness? if you have, change it out for torem.
mixing in same barrel is fine, keep below 2mls a spot.
X2...heavy compound...break plateaus using spotters to lift heavier...
Nice info brother...very holistic and easy to understand...
oh yeah good point mate thanks for the site, i'll find another two spots at minimum so I'll hit every spot every 8th day at earliest. Yeah I have looked into that I just liked it on cycle because my goodies shrink to walnuts until my first week of pct never really enjoyed that aspect. I have 5000UI, I can always grab more or not but if i use it i'll run it into the start of my PCT so they dont just crash again as stated. and nah mate never side affects like that im just more moody than my latin missus on her period, which is saying something, i'll bare with it though, cheers
As for training, would 3 days on 1 off and repeat be reasonable? I've never done something like this before but definitely keen to try it, so basically two 3-day splits a week
someone else will chime in on hcg bro, its optinal.
and pmsl! i get like that on tren, im going into week 4 and ive already nearly been single twice hahahaha, i came back from training this morning, done a brutal work out pumpes as fug, as soon as i pull in driveway misses is waiting too go shopping, we left ten minutes after getting in there, i swear iwas having vision of fly kicking some old dude down the esculators, my bp got high and the misses was like you look like a tomato and your face is vicious lol, im like yea lets go im gonna kill someone.
i feel good on clomid.
adex gets me down and mopy
hahahahahah, i feel you bro, 98% i feel like a king - 2% of it well... family came to visit and insisted on playing monopoly and god i don't even wanna talk about it... and yeah bro lucky, clomid feels the same as adex to me although lower than 0.125mg ED and im sweet as, cheers for all the advise though ill wait and hopefully more people chime in
So what is your actual goal here? The title of the post says 'Lean Bulk' but can you be more specific? It's my personal view that lean bulking is a waste of time. If you're trying to put on size you can do so in a much more effective way without picking up too much fat by just straight bulking. Be prepared to put some fat on but that's easily cut away after or apply a cyclical bulking approach of you want to minimise this (use the search function as there are some excellent posts about how this works). At the end of the day it's going to be what help end in the kitchen that will determine your results. My view given your stats is that you could probably do this and get your weight up some more natty.
That all said as to the cycle I'd like to get the above clarified first but if you really want to bulk then I would suggest a rethink and drop the Tren. I know you say you aromatise heavily and fair enough but why not just use and AI and pull bloods pre and during cycle to tweak dosage to keep estrogen at an optimum level? I mean you should be doing this regardless so.....That way you could run a decent bulking cycle based around test and go from there. Lots of options including deca or NPP. As it will be your 4th cycle and you've run a 19nor in your previous cycle and clearly know about prolactin control this could be a real option. Others much more experienced than me will chime in here no doubt and provide you with better and clearer advice. As to the VAR if you're going to run that 10 weeks is a long time. I would run if for 6 weeks at 50mg per day preferably 75mg. Again if your goal is to bulk then I wouldnt bother and would keep this for another (cutting) cycle. Just my 2c. Good luck bro.
I will probably drop the anavar for a different cycle, as of results of last cycle tren seem to make me put on mass pretty hard, but I haven't ran many compounds so I can't say, what would you recommend to replace it or placing me in the correct direction? I will read more into the stickies now thanks. As for lean bulk I meant 'putting on the most amount of muscle I can whilst not OVER-eating', maybe I'm thinking of it a little wrong, but I'm here to learn, putting on extra fat isn't an issue, as I just mentioned in the above comment would say 5-6K calories be more reasonable? I can post up a plan an amend it. I will also be monitoring bloods I got them done mid cycle as-well last cycle to ensure all was G2G to keep going, and 3-4 months ago to see my natural levels and physiological conditions, thanks for the reply mate
edit: sorry I somehow skipped over deca/NPP, I have looked into them, but will do some more, I don't plan on starting until everything is set and G2G, Also for my previous cycles I ran the test e at 500mg and I did monitor it as for my bloods, my estradiol was in the correct range but I constantly felt lethargic and tired, but in order for that to occur I had to take 1mg of adex E2D/.5 daily, when I swapped to testp/trena I didn't have an issue of that
Flash has got you pretty much covered above the training. Thanks for clearing up what you mean by 'lean bulk'. So we're talking a bulk here so regarding diet I would run calories very high (5000 to 6000 seems right to me) with at least 300g of protein but better more. Lots of good (low GI carbs) and dietry fats. Basically if your diet is clean and your training on point then you should be good given your current body composition. Play around with the calories and macros at that upper level until you feel you have it right. You will know and the mirror and scale will tell.
About the cycle I'm not saying disregard completely but I can't help but feel you can achieve what you need to without running such a harsh compound. If your estro was in range when you ran the test e at 500mg week with .5mg adex ED then I agree that's pretty heavy aromatisation. Are you sure the adex was gtg or perhaps you felt like shit from high dose of adex itself? What about running Aromasin instead? Perhaps there is something else going on with your health that is causing you to feel like that? You could always post your bloods up and see if one of the really knowledgable guys can see anything there. I also suggest you steer clear of orals until you know what you're doing with the cycle and know why you felt so poorly on the test e only cycle. Orals are harsh and could compound the issue. But generally for a bulker and given your estro issues and assuming no health problems I would go with drol at 50mg ed for the first 4 weeks or pulsed two weeks on and two weeks off. Can run this for quite some time if pulsing this way. Look into TUDCA if you do decide to ever run orals. In my view it's a must have when running orals.
I see Rustyhooker has chimed in above suggesting an alternative which is a great idea in my opinion but you will need to figure the estro issues out.
Good luck!
hes ran tren before mate, cant tell everyone in the world who isnt established on eroids they arent allowed too run tren, you know me, im a safety advocate, im strict as fuck when it comes too safety first.
have you run tren? are you on tren? i am, im actually stacking tren and deca at the moment.
i know advanced/ expert members on here, remember there first days like it was yesterday, they run tren as much as they like, even post it and no one cares? its all good they have adv tags lol, i know some who are twiggy lil bitches who shouldnt even juice, ran like 2 cycles and now are tren junkies.
not having a go at all bro, just saying its tren ace at a reasonable dose, with ancillaries and hes ran it before, plus his stats are good as well as attitude.
tren the forbidden fruit lol- of with his head lol.
Hey mate
Absolutely agree and as I said I wasn't discounting the cycle just looking at alternatives. It struck me that the high estro issue/feeling poorly on a test only cycle was worth exploring a bit more before jumping on another cycle especially one including Tren. For example it could just be the choice and/or dose of AI that causing this issue or something else entirely.
I have run Tren twice before and am in fact considering another run. I personally have a different issues with high Test cycles. I breakout something horrible on my back. It's not high estro that causes this (bloods confirms and I use an AI to keep estro where is should be) and I can only assume it's the process of test converting to DHT that is causing this. Is is definitely dose dependant too. I get it mildly on 500mg per week of Test and something horrible on 750mg per week as I am now. I never get it when I run low Test and moderate Tren and it is not affected by orals. Food for thought for me.
I am not against Tren per say and I apologise if it came across that way. It's definitely an option for the OP given his estro issues but as I said I wanted to stimulate a bit of discussion and some additional thought on his part. For example running a test/eq cycle for 16 weeks with a good bulking diet and the training program already discussed could be another option - but only if the estro issues get sorted. Oh and of course hematocrit levels are monitored and blood donated as necessary.
I know you're not having a go bro and don't worry I didn't take it that way. I'm a big boy and not easily offended like some :-). This is exactly what eroids is about - getting some healthy discussion and debate going.
no, no, no bro lol, not having a pick on you lol, your cool as, no need to be apoligising too me mate! were all equal bro, tell me too get fucked if you want, i agree with you, was just putting it out there lol.
@Dacky also, cheers for the replies guys as i pm'd dacky i do have 40ml of test e 250mg/ml and can pick up EQ just doing more research first, and as you mentioned flash i'll be grabbing more clomid and aromasin for my pct, and I think i'll swap the aro for adex, however, i wont know if the estro is fixed until i have actually ran the test/eq and gotten bloods along with it, adex at that dose feels the exact same as clomid but for 16 weeks would be way to shit, i'll bite that feeling for 5-6 week for my pct as that length isn't to bad and it's necessary
Glad to help and get you thinking. Research here is the key. There is more than one way to skin the cat so to speak. Make sure when you research eq you look at the potential red blood cell count/hematocrit impact and what do do about it if it gets high - donate blood. I think trying the test/eq and aro instead of high dose adex is an excellent way for you to see if it was the adex at such a high dose causing you to feel like shit. The worst that can happen is you feel a bit emotional on cycle again and the aro doesn't help. Then you know for sure. I don't believe it's estro that made you feel like that as it was in range. As mentioned in the PM and on other posts diet is the key here to a successful bulk. I know I am dealing with this as we speak - just now managing to get my calories and macros into me. My 2c on HCG is that it has helped me recover quicker used at 250iu twice a week through cycle and strangely I feel less emotional on PCT when I've used it. It's purely subjective this and a personal preference. I have nothing scientific or emperical to back that statement up so take it for what it's worth. All the best mate and give me a shout anytime.
Cheers mate. All good here and will defo not be telling you to get fucked lol. As is said this is what is all about - healthy debate and considered opinions. Always read your posts and inputs. I'm learning everyday.
Thanks for the advice, i'll look for my blood work but unfortunately it was taken about 11 months ago, and 6 months ago so I'll need to try find, but I was told everything was in correct range by doc, and I increased my dosage gradually, I didn't feel bad at the start of the cycle with .25mg adex daily. I can chuck you a pm because I think i'm not allowed to discuss sources here but they have been around 6+ years and only deal with pcts/a.is/peptides. Cheers mate!
No worries mate. And sure send me a PM.