posted Thu, 01/12/2012 - 14:37
2705
Starting First Cycle - Advice Needed
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after educating myself, i decided to start my first cycle (test only):
test e 250mg / week (wk 1 - 12)
break (wk 13 - 14)
pct clomid 100/100/50/50 (wk 15 - 18)
pct nolva 40/40/20/20 (wk 15 - 18)
my stats:
5'7"
189 lbs
14% body fat (caliper)
37 y/o
daily calorie intake during cycle: 3800 - 4100 cal
macro break-down: 40 - Carb / 40 - protein / 20 - fat
other OTC supplements: creatine mono, caffeine, whey & casein protein, dextrose
goal is to reach 195 lbs after 1st cycle at same or less body fat%. after 1st cycle, will take 18 weeks without gears and aim for cutting to about 10% body fat with OTC supplements of tribulus & zma.
let me know if i am missing anything. thank you all in advance for helping out this newbie.
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id bump that test up to 500 bro, trust me if you dont you will be wishing you did half way through the cycle, take 1/2 tab of aromasin eod too, but up the dose if needs be.. 250mg test if a trt dose for some people, a little on the high end for trt but i have seen it lots of times
tread-mI would advise you to have tests ran to find out what your test levels are at your age. I would be certain to have estradial level tested as well.
You could be low T by now and if you are cycling is kind of silly to me. You have this high point during cycle and you have luck and gains etc and then post cycle you crash like plane out of fule and lose everything. Even lifting heavier and eating right and heavy will not maintain the quality if low T is the case. I would personally want free test at no less than 3-400 as of now to conclude you "might" have success. It is very unlikely that you are in that range and if not then I think you forget cycling and go on trt. Trt will achieve much more for you in a year than the rollercoaster you speak of here and the n you could talk about a cycle here and there on trt...blast and cruise. I hope your levels are good and we can say a cycle will benefit you, I just have my doubts. Your success is my only motivation, nothing to sell you so take it as such and get tested. Bring those numbers back so we can help from there.
i'm assuming trt refers to testerone replacement therapy. i've had my blood work done about a year ago as my routine annual check-up. i was actually concerned about the possibility of low t level and asked my doctor if any of my lab results show such. although he didn't show me the actual report or numbers but according to him, i am in a perfect health at my age (whatever that means lol). i never really had any symptoms that suggest low t to think about trt. perhaps my next visit, i will ask for actual numbers and see where i'm at. what would it be to be considered as "normal" or "good" range of test at my age?
i appreciate everyone's input. i may sound like a wimp starting the cycle so low - although i am very tempted to up the dose to 500 on my first, you know what they say - your first instinct is usually the right one... had a friend who used gear early in his life (still my lifting buddy) and witnessed his pain of going through sides... not a good thing. in any case, i will get some adex just in case and depending on how fast it can get here, that'd be my start date. got everything else ready to go. once all is in place, i will post my pic on different forum and after picture once cycle is done. hopefully there will be some improvement. again - thank u all for your input.
AnonSA Under 2.6 ng/mL - (optimal range) Standard reference range is up to 4, but if your level is persistently 2.6 or above, have a blood test to measure the percentage of free vs. bound PSA and a digital rectal exam to help rule out prostate cancer.
DHEA 400-560 mcg/dL - (optimal range) For older men, standard DHEA ranges are very low. It is important for men without prostate cancer to restore them to the youthful range (400-560).
DHT 20-50 nanogram/dL - (optimal range) Reference range is 30-85. DHT is 10 times more androgenic than testosterone and has been implicated in prostate problems and hair loss.
Luteinizing hormone (LH) Age 20-70: 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL 70+: 3.1-34.6 mIU/mL (standard reference ranges) - Under 9.3 mIU/mL - (optimal range) If these levels are high, it is an indication of testicular testosterone production deficiency. LH tells the testes to produce testosterone . If there is too little testosterone present, the pituitary gland secretes more LH in a futile effort to stimulate testicular testosterone production. Testosterone repla***ent therapy should suppress excess LH levels. Low LH can also be a sign of estrogen overload, since too much estrogen can suppress LH activity. This could mean using an estrogen blocker like Arimidex could solve a testosterone deficiency problem.
Sex Hormone Binding - Under 30 nanomoles/L - (optimal range) Reference range is 13-71 nanomole/L. Excessive binding inactivates testosterone.
mazarGood call on getting the adex if i was you i would at least split the dose to 125mg e3.5d cause you dont want to have 4 days of energy and 3 days of laziness. One dose a week can bring more sides. Also you could always go for 375mg (250mg +125mg) and it wont be much different than your 250mg as far as sides go. Results will be though.
We all been there and keep in mind mid cycle you might regret going for 250mg whatever you do just stick with it. Good luck
Good luck with your cycle but I don't think you'd get any bad side effects with a 500mg dose. What were your friend's if I may ask?
My advice would still be that you up the dose to 500mg of test a week and have Arimidex at hand. Rest easy: 500mg is what everyone else is doing and it's safe. I did Dbol + test on my first cycle and sides were rather tolerable.
he said he started test e 750 every week with dbol every day, for 12 weeks. he started having acne really back on his body and face around 4th week and loss of sexual desire throughout the cycle. on the 8th week, he started developing itchy/puffy tits but didn't buy any AI (he just wanted to get big with test and dbol and didn't think about anything else - which he regrets now). it eventually got worse and developed gyno at the end of his 12th week and had to get surgery. his parents were pissed off - i remember when his dad called me and accused of me of being the supplier... i didn't know jack shit about gears back then lol. we joke about it now but back then, it was a pretty scary thing.
mazarHis mistake was the dbol not the test, you will find that even 750mg of test with arimidex wont cause too much trouble even for a first cycle (not recommended ofc). Take 250mg of test + dbol without an AI and you will end up like your friend most propably. His libido got shot from the high e2 which is what dbol is all about. Also it is the most boob friendly compound out there. What you need to learn from your friend is to stay well away from dbol until you really know what you are doing with AI's and e2 and always have an AI. His test dose wasnt his mistake dbols and not having an AI was.
Also your friend sounds too young how old was he?
we were both in college - 20 y/o. that was 17 yrs ago lol (amazing how time flies so fast).
mazarOh man that would suck for a 20 y/o i cant imagine the depression. Feel sorry for your friend. You are 100 times more mature than him at 37 so even if someone paid you a million bucks you still wouldnt do the same mistakes. His biggest mistake was starting young and immature. Still think you are beeing a bit overcautious you arent 20 and you were smart enough to ask for advice here, most of all you got an AI on hand.
Double your test.
sgtstedankoWhy not do you after cycle 1st Bubba!? Lean down a little; then Bulk, or Rip the fuck up brother. You will have a much better time if you do it that way... IMO, If you're gonna cycle. You've got to up your test to at least 350-400 per week. Otherwise you're wasting you time & $! At 37 Years I'd probably even go higher, say 5 to maybe even 600... Limit your caffeine to 1-2 cups of coffee per day, and include your OTC supplements of tribulus & especially ZMA all the way throughout cycle...
Anon250mg of test will put him in the 1200 range.. still hundreds more that pubescent boys..
but yes, I agree in upping it slightly. but bottom line is.. 250 works.
See . . . that's a really good point made here. You sort of have to know where you are at test baseline wise.
If you are at 1000 already, then 1200, yeah, that doesn't seem like it is worth it to replace 1000 with 1200.
But if you are sitting in the 600s or lower, 1200 is a big deal, and worth the effort.
Might be a good idea to know where you are at natty test bf dosing.
AnonExactly. But if he is at the borderline for "low" then that amount of test would put him back into his prime! as tread said...having blood work done would be key
-whoever voted this funny.. if you're trying to be an asshole, feel free to speak up and correct me on anything I said wrong.
Nice post Voc! as always
sgtstedankoRelax dude. Not trying to be an ass hole. That wad me, sorry : ( Fat fingers & bumpy ride (not a good mix) Trying to scroll down wasn't working out well as planned. You're right on dial brother!
AnonI was hoping no one needed to be enlightened ;)
good call brother.
I think you picked a good starting point. 250mg a week might be a little low but better to be safe than sorry. I ran a much heavy cycle on my first last summer and I got lucky. I was running upwards of 750mg a week and had no sides to speak of, while I personally know guys that get bad sides from 300-500 a week. Best to start slow. You can always add more if you feel like you absolutely need it.
You probably already know this but you wont feel the test E right away. Could take 4 to 6 weeks to kick it. Dont think you need to add more at week two because you haven't felt it yet.
Good luck!
mazarGood cycle to start with but it can be deceiving. You will get 0 sides from such a low dose of test so beware on your next run when you use 500mg you wont be ready for the sides. Because of the side free run you are going to think you are the best "candidate" for test which can lead to problems. Best stick with 500mg so you start learning from your first run.
Could not disagree more. Just because you might not get any side with that dosage does not guaranty he will not, everybody reacts different. For the first time we got a new cycler her who wants to take his time play it safe and learn his body and you want to rush him into a higher dose, not good my man.
mazarI am not rushing anyone to any dose, i did the same thing for my first cycle and i learned nothing while at it. From what i have experienced it was a waste of a cycle both in gains and learning. Just saying my oppinion i am sure the guy can decide for himself. Also his pct is way overkill for such dose so since he is going to take all those serm's for no reason he might as well run the full dose. He can start at 500mg and stay at 500mg all his life. 250mg is just over a trt dose what if his levels are already in the 1000s?
AnonI myself have also stated my first cycle, I opted to go with 500mg/week test e done twice per week. More like 600 with the extra, I decided this mostly due to the concept first is your best cycle.
I have to respectfully disagree with my brothers down below. 250mg/wk is a great dosage to start of with, my very first cycle was 250mg and I got great results out of it. Where the idea that 500mg a week is a must for a first cycle came from beats me. Either way you go about it you should have a great cycle my man.
thanks for the advice. considering it's my first cycle, i will likely stick with 250mg test e. sort of worried about gyno - and how my body will react. if first cycle goes smoothly, perhaps i can increase to 500 on 2nd one.
speaking of gyno - if i start having the symptom, am i correct in that i should stop taking test completely and start taking nolva immediately until symptoms go away?
You are completely taking the right approach. Your stats, chances are you'll see NICE gains off your doses. If you aren't satisfied, then up the test. All about risk tolerance, what you'll be happy with, and how your body responds. You're being smart.
Solid plan bro and don't worry you will have great results with 250mg/wk. Get yourself some adex in case of any gyno. No need to drop your cycle there is some early warning signs at which point you would take the adex until it goes away.
me too bro. I started off with 300mg once a week injection and gained about 15lbs.
Anonill also agree with saying 250mg is good. age dependent. it will put ya around the 1200 range. nothing wrong with that!!
Eric090585Double the amount of test 500mgs EW and enjoy
AnonJump your test to 500mg a week at 2 splits. 250mg per shot. other than that..looks good.
and yes - i've been lifting weights faithfully for about 5 years now. gained from 160 to 189 lbs in 5 years only with OTC supplements. it's becoming really difficult to go any higher in terms of weight, hence decided to give a little 'boost' to see if i can reach my goal.
Impressive natty gains. Reward for hard work.