+ 1 Pros -- long cycles
This IFBB pro at my old gym told me that I could cruise through regional competitions in men's physique, but that I would have to put some size on for nationals. That was last year, I've put some size on since then, and I came up with a plan to come in at 180 for a regional then bulk up to 190 for nationals. I'm weighing 180 right now at 5'9". I'm only five weeks into my cycle, I expect to be 190 before I begin cutting.
Here's the problem, that would be about a 19 week cycle, not to mention I wouldn't have time to come off before it was time to bulk again. In the name of health, I've decided to delay competition until December.
Let's assume for a second that this pros confidence in me was rightly placed, and I win at the national level. It would seem then that long cycles would be inevitable. Are the pros simply sacrificing their health? Is there a way around this?
I started aas because I was on a medication that destroys natural test. I'm no longer on it, so after this cycle I'm going to have bloods done to see if it did permanent damage, hopefully not, but I'm not optimistic. I'm 31 and wouldn't be surprised if it was low anyway. What I am worried about is low sperm count if I make it to that level of competition.
If it is a necessity, would it be prudent to cycle hcg every couple weeks throughout these long cycles?
EDIT: Any EXPERIENCED competitors that could weigh in on this?
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P2i2tI would like to mention that I am not a professional, not a bodybuilder or competitor in any way. But throughout the years of using aas I have learned a great deal about the compounds and the body and the way it all interacts with each other.so here are a couple suggestions based off of none other than the information I have read or my personal experiences that can help shed some light on some of your questions.
first off I really want to point out the fact that I LOVE how when you mentioned using HCG you asked if it would be "prudent to cycle HCG every couple of weeks throughout your cycle?" this shows that you actually have an understanding about how to properly use HCG without risking completely desensitizing your leydig cells. I look at some cycle layouts and I shake my head sometimes when I see people using or planning on using HCG from say week 6 through week 16 non stop.many don't realize that, due to many factors, this can do more harm than good. I completely believe in always using HCG when running any type of extended cycle. although every single person is different, everything all comes down to statistics in the end. And statistically speaking those that are constantly running long cycles and not properly using HCG will ultimately become infertile, or at least have a much much higher percentage rate of becoming infertile. in my profile I have my hcg layout for this current cycle posted.if you get a chance you should go check it out.
so what you are stating above is that you were told you would do very well in the mens physique contest correct? I can tell you are obviously educated in this area so there's no need to point out that physique competitors and bodybuilders are a couple steps away from each other and have a completely different approach to the way they train and take time off. And in the way they utilize aas or other drugs to get them ready and have them be at their peak level at the time needed. I can't imagine that a professional bodybuilder will ever totally come off of aas. they are WAY past their natural capacity and a professional competes way too often to lose their size and strength and will not have enough time to come off, lose a hell of a lot of thier physique, and put it back on through cycling. physique competitors on the other hand I believe could come off in between cycles and still reach their goals by the next competition as long as they schedule accordingly.that is actually what a lot of this will come down to. Scheduling.if somebody competing schedules too many events in a short period of time, then they will not allow themselves to come off and will ultimately have to rely on consistently cycling or blasting and cruising.but if you schedule accordingly then you can plan every step out beforehand and know exactly how much time you will need in between each competition in order to come off, go back on and reach your goals again and come back off again.I am sure I am stating the obvious here but as I said I do not personally live this competition lifestyle and am just stating from my personal outside perspective and logic of what competing would require.
so I believe your main concern about fertility and inevitable long cycles has already been answered.HCG if used properly can save your opportunity of reproducing.no matter how long your given cycle is or how many cycles you do in a row. from reading below most of the other information has been answered and I see that you are more than likely now in contact and PMing with competitive bodybuilder.so I just wanted to tell you that I wish you the absolute best and I hope you enjoy and take advantage of whichever decision you make to the best of its ability. keep killing it bro.
+1 for putting your pride to the side and reaching out for advice, instead of thinking you know it all or thinking you can learn it all by yourself
RustyhookerHcg no matter what will save your fertility?
This is one of those moments where gs9902 could come in and post reality. There's been many blast cruisers that couldn't make babies.
For physique class I'd see no real reason to blast and cruise. Something must be wrong with genetics over the last 25 years. Dude's back in high school were hard cut and over 220 at 17. Not tall either. But they busted ass and ended up going places. But I digress....op goals are readily within reach. Why would he wreck himself for an abs/pecs competition?
So for the guys that are competing back to back, not having time to come off between, are just fucking themselves? Again I want to mention that the cruising has nothing to do with retaining size for these guys, just a hectic competition schedule.
It seems from what you're saying that 1-2 comps/yr is the smart thing to do. IMO if you can't win a contest to make it to the big show, why bother, nobody cares who comes in 20th. I'm just looking for informed opinions at this point. Thanks for weighing in rusty. I just want to add that I could squat 450 (ass to the grass) at 17, and natural, I put my work in. I like the size that I am. I'm only bulking up more to be competitive. I wonder is you guys have looked at Jeremy Buendia from last year. Check out his back picks. Physique is changing. It's more like the old school bbs. Hopefully it continues in that direction. Better yet, they should have an old school division. Aesthetics and Posing! Ah, a guy can dream.
RustyhookerI was mainly questioning p2 answer. Makes all this sound safe when it's not.
As far as you, I'm saying you're right there. Right at your goals. Are you going to fry your axis is the question? Nothing wrong with chasing the dream at all. At your height if you went npc bodybuilding then you'd certainly need to be closer to 250. But your within hands reach. Plot and plan out a future cycle where you can add a natural few pounds then run a lice cycle and win.
I guess what bugs me is it gets to be typical on here where a tall guy doesn't even try to build mass then wants to become a competitor. No training or diet. Clearly that's not you. You're doing it. Don't give up! Just be smarter than the average dude.
I got what that you were questioning him, and def appreciate that you did. I was hoping to spark an intelligent discussion. Which seems to be happening.
I have no doubt that I would get up to 250 in a couple years, but I have no interest in being that big. Plus my gf made me promise her that I wouldn't go over 200. ha. The only reason I started steroids was because my medicine was lowering my test and I couldn't retain any muscle.
At my height, I'd have to have a comp weight around 200 to be Arnold's size. To me, and a lot of people, that's what bodybuilding should be. Aesthetics seems to be a little more important now than when I was a teen, but physique, regardless of how lame it is, is all about aesthetics. Proportion seems to be becoming more important as it evolves. Just some insight as to why I'm not looking to get huge.
I've decided that I just wont compete more that a couple times/ year.
As you said I'm going to try to gain a little size while I'm off, assuming that my meds didn't do permanent damage, and I can still produce enough test naturally. I'm looking for 200 at 8% before I do my first comp. Then hopefully "grow into" a 195 comp weight. IMO with my small waist, that will look pretty big, and hopefully make me a strong competitor.
RustyhookerAgree. My opinion is that's why for bodybuilding I like the light heavyweight division. Thick beasts but it's still got the classic look. Not a class where the flat out biggest wins.
If physique keeps evolving, it may turn into a spot where the guys are back into the skimpy shorts and fully proportioned. The Bob Paris look.
Welcome to eroids! I'm glad you're here digging around and interactive. Good luck in your endeavors, the sky is the limit.
That's a nice look. Did you check out Jeremy Buendia from last year. I'm hoping that's they it continues. The posing just sucks.
Thank you for the well thought out and thorough response. This is what I expected, or at least hoped to learn. I kind of thought that some people would say that long cycles will destroy sperm count regardless.
You hit the nail on the head about scheduling. It's not that these guys have to stay on to keep their size necessarily, but that if they want to compete at Olympia (not saying that I will get there), they they need to accumulate enough points throughout the season. That may mean a lot of contests. The pro that I was referring to is on 9 mos/yr, or so he made it sound.
I became sterile from blasting and cruising. We were trying to have a third child with no luck and I ended up seeing a reproductive endocrinologist who confirmed the bad news I suspected. There are treatments available and an acquaintance of mine left competitive bodybuilding to go into ministry full time. He was also sterile with no kids and underwent treatment and now has a beautiful baby boy.
I'm a competitive bodybuilder and I never cycle completely off. I cannot hold the muscle mass I have without steroid supplementation. I'm way beyond my genetic potential.
The longer the cycles, the more risk of permanent damage. It's not a certainty - we are all quite different - but I can say with confidence that the risk gets higher and higher.
Then, eventually, you may elect to move from longer and longer cycles with shorter and shorter time off to the blast and cruise lifestyle.
This is an extremely personal subject for me and I would be glad to go over any details with you in PM.
Thanks gear, I'm sending you an FR.
Accepted
If your worried about fertility / sperm count, always use HCG on any cycle.
If you wipe your sperm count it can take a year or two to return to peak levels for your age, but in the majority of cases it will eventually return.
I Really dont know anything about competing but im gonna weigh in here with some common sense anyways..
Do some Phys competitors blast and cruise? yes
Do all of them? probably not
On average would the ones who blast and cruise look better? yes
Are the the ones who blast and cruise sacrificing their health? to some extent yes, however with HCG their sperm count should be fine.
Honestly imo mate - just play it safe, see how you do with your current cycling protocol in nationals before trying anything too extreme, if you don't do particularly well with that then reassess how you cycle if competing means enough to you. The guy you spoke to, was he a judge? do think you should place so much weight in his opinion? Take a bash at nationals and see how you do ^^
Just a newb dropping his opinion..
No, he's not a judge, but an experienced competitor. That's why this was all hypothetical. This really just applies to the top competitors, but this guy also blasts and cruises. This is what I expected but, want to have a plan in my head in case I do, do well. Being ill prepared and ignorant is dangerous. Thank you for a well thought out, intelligent response.
Its called blasting and cruising. That's what upper level ifbb pros do. The bodybuilders. Honestly physique isn't even big. Those guys are way too small to have to do that. There are natural guys at that size. So pretty sure they don't run that much gear. Think about it. They compete at 170-190. That's relatively light even shredded. Probably just bulk with a cycle. Come off. Then jump into a cut cycle. There's no reason to have to stay on for physique. That's obsurd. But yeah hcg is used throughout to maintain fertility. Why don't you just bulk up to the national weight you talked about? Then compete in a regional and a national back to back if you're so confident? Seems way more logical.
That's exactly what I said I was going to do! Also, I laid out a hypothetical, and I was very clear about that - I never said I was that confident, so, there's no need to be condescending.
I know it's called blast and cruise, that's what the whole thing is about. Those guys on top are in that shape most of the year. Whether or not you think those guys are big or not, they have to be in shape all of the time if they want to make money. Otherwise they'd have to pass up opportunities.
Diet is what keeps the physique guys in shape, not drugs. BB's are a different story.
So, you're telling me that they look the same on or off? I sure don't. If you look at my last pic of my back, that was before my cycle really kicked in, I look really smooth and my diet is very strict. I'm not saying that I couldn't lean out, but I look much different when I'm on. It's only been 10 days since my cycle really kicked in, and my back is already much better. They have opps all year, so I find it hard to believe that that come off of everything completely. If you didn't see Jeremy Buendia at the 2014 Olympia you should look him up.
For the sake of argument, lets just assume we're talking about bodybuilders.
So, I would assume that bbs never come off because their natural test couldn't support that much muscle, since they're past their genetic limit.
Yes physique guys could probably look good enough running peptides between cycles for opps, but we're talking about a min of 3 mos between cycle plus a minimum of 6 weeks prep cycle. That's 4-5 mos between contests. That means they can only compete 2 maybe 3 time per year. Unless they are a top pro, that's not very likely to be possible when considering points.