+ 1 No AI on Test/Deca cycle
This will be my 3rd cycle i am 27 5'8" 180lbs 17% bf. My last cycle ended 13 months ago and consisted of 500mg test and 250mg deca weekly and i never used an AI on this cycle, but always had both Prami and Adex on hand. I have never had any noticeable signs of high estro on either of my cycles. I understand everyone is different and although i didn't see any sides from my last cycle many people would have had major problems. My question is, Is it safe to not use an AI on cycle now that im bumping up my test dosage and adding HCG? Is having it on hand sufficient? My plan is to run the cycle below and if ANY sides occur start taking .25mg Adex E3D.
weeks 1-12 Deca 150mg E3D
weeks 1-14 Test-E 300mg E3D
weeks 5-14 hcg 500 iu
Prami and Adex on standby
Clomid weeks 17-21 100/100/50/50
Nolva weeks 17-21 40/40/20/20
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I'd do my first round of bloods no less than 3 weeks in and then again at 6. Reason is you have pretty high body fat and sides are very likely especially if your upping the doses.(if you had good results with the lower dose why up the dose?). Sides can be very different for everyone and although you don't feel it or notice it doesn't mean that they aren't there. The object is to get the most out of your cycle .... Agreed? So even though you're not feeling it you may still be running high on estrogen which can hinder gains. Besides you want to be able to monitor kidney and liver function. So my advice is that if you're going to venture into this cycle without using and AI or a anti prolactin then you need to at the very least do bloods and stay on top of all aspects. They're cheap and a minor inconvenience. So get the most out of your cycle and stay healthy bro!
Hi newguy!
Think the others do give advice in detail, but I just wanted to mention that I like the way you present yourself and put ur questions forward!
Much better than a lot of rookies here.
Hope u get to the right decisions to make the cycle decent.
Always have training, nutrition AND recovery regimes in line (that part is missing in your description)
Regards,
Iron
Caber can be just as bad if not worse. I'd say the good majority of people don't get along with caber. Plus its expensive.
K I'll type it out now that I ate. Lol.
Prami ramp
Start at .125
Every 3-5 days up the dose by another .125
.125
.25
.375
.5
Etc.
Usually .25 is enough to stave off prolactin. Some need more. I need .5 myself. It all depends on the individual.
Take your dose right before bed Cuz its gonna make you real sleepy, this way you can also pretty much sleep through the side effects.
You'll get sides in the beginning no matter what in most cases. This will subside over time. And eventually you'll start to really like prami, hopefully lol. I love it.
Ty yea i have heard prami can be pretty ROUGH!
Just a little advice if you do decide to run the prami. Start with a very low dose and slowly ramp it up to your target dose. Prami crushes me with sides as well as many others, some people do get on fine with it but IMO slowly ramping it up is the best way to go about it, actually the best way would be caber;)
I plan on getting bloods done mid cycle. And i will purchase Letro just in case ty for making me aware that i need something stronger than adex. So my plan is to go without the adex and at the 6 week mark get my bloods from Private ML. Is the female hormone panel sufficient i am not sure it covers progesterone. So when i get the results back at week 6 i will add adex into my cycle IF NEEDED. Is this the right way to do this? im just afraid of taking adex if i dont need it.
I hope u r not getting caught up and short changed here cause even at the senior level on this site, folks have different opinions on the use of AIs. I use them from Day 1, I have never had any side effects from them. They have never compromised my gains on cycle. Period. That's me. Yes, u would order the hormone panel for females from Private MD Labs and just specify male gender on checkout. If u want to take a look at prolactin, which I think is only run for females you would have to order that as a separate test and then use the range of 2 - 18 ng/mL for men. The right range may come back but there it is just in case. Why are u afraid of properly dosed adex? AIs and DAs like prami are your friends bro.
X2! The only thing I would do is for the Clo- 100 50 50 50. If your clo is good 100 100 may give you sides, and there not easy to take- fucked up vision, vertigo to name a few I've been told of. Just my humble opinion!
I am going to run a very small dose of .25mg e3d of adex or maybe just every mon/fri. The reason is because if i start getting sides i want to know for sure its not estro related, if that makes any sense.
That's an excellent way to go. Gotta know what's really going on in your body to make things work properly. You may want to consider starting the prami regardless of whether or not you THINK you need it. With the elevated test (which will also elevate estrogen) and the deca still not even fully kicking in. You're at risk for prolactin getting out of control, and once that happens, the rest of your hormones follow suit and go nuts right along with it. And suddenly.... tits, decadick, crying like a bish, ruined cycle. You can start the prami just to be safe without any real consequences like too much a.i. would cause. I personally love being on prami.
Just know how to ramp it up. If you don't know I'll clarify. I'd type it out now but I have a big meal screaming my name right now.
Trying to guess what's going on in your body by how you feel couldn't be more downright foolish. If u feel great on cycle that's great bro. U get a mid-cycle blood test and it shows not slightly, but considerably elevated E2, you use an AI to bring it down. Bro, estrogen control is very important on a deca cycle. Deca sides just get exacerbated in the presence of elevated estrogen. HCG will also do a small add to your estrogen level as well.
Edit: (looking at the comments below) Personally, get some Letrozole if u r gonna have something on hand - God forbid u do have some estrogen related gyno issues pop up. Also, like birdbear27 says, having some aro on hand in case the adex doesn't cut it is a good idea.
Well what does your bloodwork say? What did it say on your last cycle? Not feeling sides and feeling ok doesn't mean shit. Period. Run bloods pre cycle, 6 weeks in, and post pct. blood work from the middle of your last cycle will tell you what ai you need this cycle.
Only way to know is by getting blood work done brother. Gotta see where your levels are at. Some people are just simply not prone to gyno at all. But gyno isn't the only thing that happens when estrogen is up. But If you're upping your test you may run into a need for an a.i. its excellent that you have it on hand. Bit you should also have another a.i. on hand in case adex doesn't do the trick for you or your body doesn't like it. I'd suggest having aromasin on hand. As well as a serm like torem in case gyno does arise. Nolva would work however since you're using deca, nolva will aggravate prolactin. Torem will not. So to answer your question I would say yes having it on hand is sufficient in your case. But you should always have a backup, this is especially true for you since you haven't used an a.i. before so you don't know how how adex works with your body. Bottom line is you'll want to get bloods done probably 4-6 weeks in (someone may suggest earlier) to see where you're at and act on it accordingly. You're probably going to need an a.i. this time around.
Also have you never gotten any prolactin sides either? If you're not getting estrogen or prolactin sides on test and deca I'm jealous.
The only side i have ever noticed is maybe being a tiny bit more irritable but nothing more than that. Should i purchase letro or Aromasin? I am going to get bloods at week 6 because i start HCG at week 5, i dont want to get bloods done until Hcg has effected my estro.
I would love you to have both. I have every a.i. and serm known to man in my stash just for safety's sake. Always be prepared. Hormones are serious shit. You don't wanna get caught with your pants down when it comes to hormone manipulation. Aromasin preferably for on cycle, in my opinion its just superior overall to adex, but I still have adex in my stash. See, prepared
Letro for emergencies.