Need opinions. How would YOU incorporate TNE into this cycle?
So right now my current cycle is...
keep in mind this is my second cycle, so I don't want to be on too much gear, or go overboard. I'm planning on lowering Test Prop, is this necessary? If it is, how much would you lower it?
Also I should mention that my main interest in taking TNE is for the pre-workout properties it attains. I'm not entirely interested in using it to maintain stable blood levels and achieve muscle growth.
700mg Test Prop per week
350mg NPP per week
Letro - .625mg ED
Caber - .25mg EOD
However I just ordered TNE and I can't wait to try it out. I have a question for you guys though. Considering the extremely short half life of TNE, do you guys count it towards your overall weekly Anabolic intake? My initial idea was to lower the dose of Test Prop, not sure how much though. Probably something like 75mg ED.
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so I think I read your 5 weeks in on this? what kind of gains have you seen? morning weight?
Very good lean gains so far. Have had absolutely no bloating at all. I will say that my body fat has probably increased by about 2% as I'm eating a lot more than normal, but that's something that I totally welcome.
As of now I've had about a 17lb weight gain. Morning weight is 228lbs.
Really enjoying the cycle, although I'm not getting that wonderful sense of well being that I got with my first cycle, although it's not really a big deal.
that seems like alot of weight running letro, but if that the case why add TNE?
Yeah, it's a good bit. I'd say it's probably 4 lbs of fat, 4lbs water, 9 lbs muscle (But I honestly don't know because I'm actually more vascular than when I started so that assessment could be completely incorrect.) Added a solid 40-50lbs to my pressing movements, about 60lbs to my deadlift, and about 40lbs to my squat @ 5 weeks in. All of these are using extremely strict form and controlled negatives.
I really just want to try TNE as a pre-workout honestly. I don't want to try to create a steady blood level of TNE and get gains from it, I simply want the extra boost in the gym. That's what this whole thread was supposed to be about. Considering that I only want to use it once per day, and only for pre-workout purposes, I was wondering if it's still necessary to lower the dose of test prop, or can I get by with leaving prop at that dose. I have already planned on lowering test to 525mg a week, regardless if I take the TNE or not.
Have you considered giving halo a try? I would think it would be better suited as a preworkout booster than TNE but you'd have to keep the liver toxicity in mind...
I haven't actually, I've recently been reading a bit into it, seems like an interesting compound. Have you tried it?
I have no experience with it. Wouldn't mind trying it tho...
Halo was the favorite in my gym when I was getting started. A bunch of middleweight and light-heavyweight fighters who didn't want to gain weight but wanted the increased aggression and strength. I can tell you this, it works as advertised! Strngth gains are ridiculous but the liver toxicity is terrible. If you or cornbread use it, be conservative and keep it short
***Aggression factor is off the scale... especially if stacked with tren!
WOULD ADVICE EXTREME CAUTION RUNNING HALOTESTIN FOR RECREATIONAL USAGE!***
Sounds like a recipe for disaster!
Used it in the past bro for pre/comp purposes,being highly androgenic its good for the final hardness, i had to quit using it or i would have ended up in jail or worse killed some poor fucker!... evil gear bro if not used absolutly correctly... if you do consider using imo triple your daily liver supps! THIS STUFF WILL MAKE YOU PISS BLOOD FOR SURE!
FUCK THAT!... I don't wanna kill nobody so I'll pass. Appreciate your advice as usual brother
X2 used a long time ago, even in small dose was horrible. I'm a placid bloke, i was a nasty shit on H.
zewiX@ I AGREE.
What a trainwreck.
If you could provide more information other than just calling it a "trainwreck" that would be great. Obviously, your comment has not contributed in any way at all to the forum, so, I'll ask you to either explain your rationale for calling this a "trainwreck" or, consider not commenting at all, sir.
I'm very open to suggestions, but so far the people who have said this is a shit cycle have either not read my post accurately, or have not provided one single good point as to why this is such a bad cycle. I've seen this cycle on forums tons of times, and quite frankly, my results should speak for themselves. No sides to speak of either.
Then eith the cycle being perfection with no sides and its going well.....its very obvious that these VETS are completely wrong. I wouldn't ever suggest your cycle til you've run at least five cycles. No need adding TNE in as tne is only slightly shorter acting than prop. It wouldn't do anything special for this cycle.
As far as i read when i scanned all this i see vets stating dont run it. What else is there to really say? It worked for you individually.
This thread I called a trainwreck because this cycle clearly shows how anyone can simply throw a bucket of gear in the mix and grow.
That means literally nothing at all. Of course anyone who takes gear and eats and trains properly will grow..........what do you even mean?
You act like I'm taking 5g of test and tren.
I believe zewi already explained the "trainwreck" further down the page and contrary to what you say, you weren't very open to suggestions. Maybe you'll be more receptive to others input when you're back here crying because you fucked this cycle up...
He actually hasn't at all. His main points were that Letro wrecks joints and libido. I have stated multiple times that I do not have either of those side effects. So I don't believe he has made any legitimate points.
I see on the first page you mentioned the reason you want to use TNE is for it's "pre-workout properties". What the fuck does that mean? Its properties? Its testosterone, it should be used as such. I hate tne as a pre workout. It makes me feel like shit when i'm finishewd. I crash hard. But thats just me. Wtf do i know. It should be used as a test base w/ 2x daily injects. If you plan on running it pre-workout, use it at 50mg at a time and adjust as you go. Its a good "pre-fuck" drug, but not a pre-workout imo. You'll probably need all that letro you want to run. But you're already at 700mg week of prop. I'll assume you train 4-5 days a week so now you're up around 1100-1200mg test. Your second cycle, hhmmm, i would lower the prop to half the dose (50mg) on the days u use the tne.
Again, I'll ask you just like I asked many people. Did you even read my post? I clearly stated that my objective was to lower the dose of test prop, to accommodate the addition of TNE. Thank you for your input, sir.
I see that you think it's silly to use it as a workout enhancer, but plenty of people seem to love using it pre-workout, so I think I'll give it a go as well.
I do! But like I said, thats just me. What works or doesnt work for me may be totally different for you. I'll tell you what happened when i tried it as a pre-workout. I would get a little extra umph in the gym. I felt alert, focused and a tad stronger. A few hours later i was falling asleep driving. The next time i did it, I made sure i sipped a protein shake while I lifted in case that caused my crash the previous time. It did nothing to help. I crashed again. I mean i felt like i couldn't keep my eyes open even when I fought it. Some suggested maybe it made me train harder and because of that i was gassed. Not the case with me. I did shoulders on my 4th and final attemprt at a pre-workout with TNE, I went light weight and spent a lot of time with 20lb dumbells trying to strengthen my weak left rotator cuff. Nothing even close to intense. Guess what happened a couple hours later? Yup, crashed out! So for whatever reason, i can't use it. If I were to try again, it would be as my test base. 2-3x daily injections. Thats how it was designed! Thats how it should be used. You are correct tho, lots of ppl love it and swear by it. Placeabo effect? Maybe, maybe not, but I dont like it. My appologies for anything that may have come across as condescending. I'm usually not like that
zewiLetro - .625mg ED
Caber - .25mg EOD
Are you serious????
Very serious. It works beautifully for me. No pain to speak of, no negative side effects at all. I'm one of the lucky ones who can get away with minimal side effects from Letrozole. I'm also extremely gyno prone so it's something that I have no interest in toying around with.
zewi"I'm also extremely gyno prone "
So you had gyno on your First cycle--you have only done one..
Test Cyp + Winstrol was my first cycle??? And you had gyno?? what was your dosage?
Stats
Height: 6'4
Age: 25
Weight: 228 lbs
BF: 12-15%
Cycle History: Test Cyp + Winstrol was my first cycle
Diet: 4500-5750 calories per day. 40% Protein, 40% Carbs, 20% Fat
I should also state that I am primarily interested in using TNE as a pre-workout / workout enhancer as opposed to using it in an attempt to gain muscle.
I'm also using HCG this cycle, at 125iu every day. As for Letro and Caber, I'm using both human grade brand name Femera & Dostinex. I will never run a cycle without Letro mainly because I honestly don't get those absolutely atrocious side effects that everyone speaks of. I may get achy joints sometimes, but it's only after an intense tricep workout, or squats, after about 2 days the pain subsides. Also, I have no desire at all to toy around with possibly getting gyno. That is my biggest fear and something that I will go to the end of the earth to avoid. If you're calling this cycle shitty because of Letro, I would question your knowledge of this compound. There are many popular myths associated with Letrozole that have either been proven false, or do not have any empirical evidence off of which the claims can be validated.
For those saying this is a "shitty" cycle I'll ask you to provide me with a solid reason why you believe this. I'll of course listen with an open mind, but I do not understand in the least bit how you can call this a shitty cycle. You must remember that just because you might have bad experiences with certain compounds doesn't mean that everyone does. Regardless of that, I honestly don't see how anyone in their right mind could call a test/NPP cycle "shitty." But please do inform me.
Ok if you are "gyno prone" STAY THE F*** AWAY FROM NPP OR DECA OR ANY 19NOR.. deca or npp for your 2nd cycle is not a good idea and you will regret it if your gyno prone and in general. You have so many other AAS to chose from than that.
zewi"If you're calling this cycle shitty because of Letro, I would question your knowledge of this compound. "
I question yours because your using Caber and Letro..
And you have no idea if your going to need them, because you have never used DECA or NPP.. You should start of using Aromasin--caber and letro are suppose to be on hand. If nipples become sensitive.
The idea that people should wait until they see symptoms to take these compounds not only worries me, but doesn't make much sense assuming that I have no negative side effects from these compounds, and also that I can afford them.
Why would you wait till a problem arises to fix it? Why not take preventative measures instead of waiting around until the problem occurs? No, I have never taken a 19nor, so I'm not sure if I am naturally susceptible to progesterone issues, but it's a risk I'm not willing to take considering there is literally no beneficial reason that I can see to take this risk.
zewiYour double dipping brother.(which is going to lead to libido will be shoot, joint pain) Your taking extreme measure that can lead to low estro and other problems.
If you have an AI your should be good---its cause Letro and caber are the top dogs and can cause other issue, bot long term and short term as your estro crashes, and you have more issue.
cdaddy7Exactly Z, Juice 2 and Cornbreaddddd are masterminding a nice trainwreck 2nd cycle
I did not advise him on ais so for you to say that is fucking ridiculous. Besides his choice of ais there is nothing wrong with this cycle. Period. Estrogen gyno and progesterone gyno are 2 different things. Don't forget that, otherwise you will be speaking about something you don't know about, which is beneficial to no one.
zewiwell let him do his thing. Im done with this thread. He has it all figured out.. so i have nothing to offer.
cdaddy7Bro Im very aware of the differences and because of them both causing it makes it a little bit worse on the possibillity of ending up with issues. But like I said its his body and his choice. I was never for it in the first place. If you had assisted him on his cycle then you should have helped him with AI issue too.
but other than that I think the way it currently is or my original idea is a pretty solid cycle.
So you did have a hand in the cycle
Well I genuinely do appreciate your input, as it's always nice to possibly realize other aspects that you might not have considered before.
You mention the possibility of "ending up with issues" from using both compounds. I'm assuming here, that you're referring to the possibility that using NPP & Test together can cause issues. I'm curious to which issues you're referring because I was under the impression that using Letro and Caber would pretty much thwart the possibility of most issues in the most efficient way possible.
letro is like the nazi AI of AI's, you will get estro rebound if your not very careful. IF your caber is legit you won't need letro and you would be fine with aromasin if you think adex doesn't suit you.. IF you see gyno symptoms then i'd use letro as a last result.
I have Aromasin on hand, as well as Clomid, Torem, and Nolvadex to handle the rebound. Obviously I don't intend to use them all, but my point is that I have it under control. Thanks for a legitimate response.
zewiand how to take TNE
cdaddy7Wow bro so your gyno prone and you are goin to add 19nor to the mix and help those prolactin levels go to work for you.....A DOUBLE WHAMMY!!!!
Are you aware of what Cabergoline is? Or did you not even read my post. Obviously I'm taking Cabergoline and Letrozole to combat any kind of gyno issues that should arise. So far I'm about 5 weeks in, and have had no symptoms of gyno what-so-ever. Also, my libido is fine.
zewithen why are you here?? You don't need us or TNE..
cdaddy7You know what bro its your body. I did not recommend this cycle in your previous post and I wish you the best of luck. I know all about compounds and what they are and do. You are playing with fire and I hope you don't get burned but I will tell you this ppl don't get lucky forever
zewiI still want to no how he knows he is gyno prone. with one cycle.. I want to know his hole last cycle. If he was taking letro and caber last cycle how the fuck was he gyno prone???
My last cycle was 250mg test cyp per week while taking .25mg Arimidex E3D. I added Winstrol for the last couple of weeks, but obviously there would be no problems with estrogen from Winstrol.
Even at this low dose of test, I still managed to get some pretty nasty gyno symptoms. Also taking into account the Arimidex, I'd say that I feel that I'm pretty gyno prone. I see your point in saying that there's not really a way to tell just based on one cycle. But then again, I still feel like most people wouldn't have symptoms at those doses. Regardless, like I said, it's something for which I have great concern and have no interest in risking.
You AI could have been bunk...? they're right 1 cycle?
I agree with what every one said.. I always think "oh shit" now when I see ppl doing a 19nor if they're new to it because there are so many fake caber floating around x[
just use 1cc preworkout
cdaddy7Apparently I need your stats and cycle plan, too!!! Don't give advice without the proper info!!! Especially on a shitty cycle plan like he's got right there!!!