Need Help With Cycle
Bros,
Need a little help in finishing out this cycle. A little about me: training 15+ years, a few PH cycles back in the day, on TRT for about 5 years, training and nutrition dialed in pretty well.
Body-type would be a skinny-fat if I did not train 6 days/week, year-round for the last 15+ years. I have an athletic build now/visible 6-pack @200lb, but even with TRT find it very difficult to add quality muscle mass. Increasing testosterone above, say 400mg/week, just induces extremely uncomfortable bloat that even 1mg/EOD arimidex has trouble keeping at bay.
For these reasons and more, I dont want a super-"wet" cycle or a monster mass builder, but I think my androgen receptors are downgraded enough to the point where a stacked cycle is necessary. A wash-out period to come off TRT to prep for the cycle is not a possibility.
I've decided to run a Tren cycle, but in doing research, it has raised more questions than it has answered.
I was originally thinking Test + Tren + Winny + some other lean mass/hardening agent like Primo/EQ/Masteron. The issue is, I have been reading a lot of Bill Roberts' work and he absolutely contends that Primo/EQ/Materon should not be used with Tren, except for the purpose of lowering your Tren dose. And even then, he says, that these possible combos with Tren are less effective than just doing one or the other at full dose.
I'm not sure if Anadrol would be too much bloat. Same as D-Bol.
So any insight/advice/direction would be appreciated. Very much want to run Tren, but want to make the absolute best out of it. Curious to see what others are running with Tren for a lean-mass cycle.
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RustyhookerWhat exactly do you call bloat? I see the word bloat and ai abuse daily. Then find out later the diet was bad or bloat was a mental picture.
Kinda leads into the skinny fat.
Whats your daily gym routine...fully detailed?
Whats your daily diet?
Wow, I've been away about a week... I certainly appreciate all of the new posts. This is a great community with great members... Thanks.
Regarding bloat, let's say it's been to the point of exercise induced, chronic compartment syndrome and pitting edema in the lower legs. Extremely, extremely painful. No signs of cardiovascular disease /impairment via EKG and/or ECHO that would contribute or exacerbate the condition.
Urine spot Sodium level..
Last CMP?
If it were me and being trt I would stay away from tren for a while. If your worried about a little bloat from test tren is going to fuck your world up. I would use maybe eq. Since time on doesn’t really matter because you don’t come of the 20wk cycle would probably be the cheapest best bet. But then again I haven’t run primo yet one day. But eq is cheap and give amazing lean gains that stay and I didn’t hold water. And then maybe use some Winny at the end given that your diet was good and stayed fairly lean.
Hello Sir,
Trenbolone is really a competitive bodybuilders substance which potentially can be fairly hard on your body with lots of side effects. Why would you risk to have any health issues considering your age and goals. Other substances you mentioned - Winstrol will more likely create some damage for your joints Sir which again is completely unnecessary. Primo/EQ/Masteron stack again will more likely suite a competitive BB cycle.
Why not to stay on a safe side and maybe add some Proviron to your existing TRT cycle!!!
Regards
Old man, what has you so focused on Tren why has it got you want to run it so bad. Have you truly put some hard honest research into tren. Tren has many many negative side effects that most guys on here including myself can't handle at all. You should really study up some more one it and silly as it sounds make a pros and cons list before you jump into it. The night sweats which can be outrageous the insomnia that's just redicolus and the anxiety that is causes is what turns most away from it. And that's just a few of the bad sides. But if you mind is made up to run it at least run TrenA over TrenE. TrenA is the short ester its gets in and starts working faster but also if the bad sides kick in and you find them to be more than you can take then trenA will get out of your system a lot faster also. Many of us here will try and get you to steer clear of it for a good reason and only because we have your best interest in mind. So please before you just blindly jump on that Tren train really really research it a lot more. Good luck brother
No, it's certainly not set in stone. That's what I'm here for, to learn as much as possible. Certainly, my goals are different from someone stepping on stage. I suppose I may have been reading what I wanted to regarding the safet/risk profile and downplayed the sides in my mind. I certainly will head advice of much more knowledgeable people here.
Have you ever used Exemestane?
Not yet, no. Have access to a script for arimidex so I never looked too much into it. I for sure will, now, though.
I agree bro...I respond better to aromasin than arimidex. its also easier for me to dial in.AI is different for everyone
Any lean mass you build is diet related, ...period. Now being on trt, your normal test levels are such that an increase in cals at the proper macros will yield results, not fat.... ( assuming training is in check)....
Tren is definitely not something to mess with just to gain a few lbs of clean muscle..... if you’re not heading to the stage or make a living with your physique, steer clear of Tren..... might look into proviron and what it can do when used with testosterone....
I'll take a gander into Proviron, thanks.
Why do think they are downgraded and what would have caused it?
Just being on TRT for a good few years now with an occasional spike in dosing just to see how my body would react. So basically no "off" time in 5+ years. But as I said, going off is not an option as I have legit hypoandrogenism, with baseline total test levels in the 50's (!) before treatment.
You have been reading the broscience bible to much. TRT is not going saturate your receptors and cause you to be less responsive to AAS. Can't use that as an excuse for lack of progress. I have been on TRT a good many years also and still make gains just from my trt dose. No need for crazy stacks yet given your cycling history and experience.
basskiller89Run a beginner cycle brother, test at 500mgs a week + an ai is only going to hold water if your e is too high
I wouldn't run multiple compounds especially tren when you're not trying to become a mass monster
You really dont think Tren could be incorporated for a nice, clean, lean bulk, depending on dosage/duration/diet? That would be a bummer.
Again, I dont respond well to higher amounts of test, but I appreciate the input.
basskiller89I'm sure it could be a very valuable compound it's just a question of necessity. I'm not saying do it but there's only one way to find out how a compound works for you. Could be great for you. A lot of it is mental I believe. I run test e bc I feel better mentally compared to other esters. Placebo 100%. If you're able to safely experiment with a compound and can intelligently comprehend the warnings everyone has given you, at the end of the day it's your cycle and your body. A lot of great other options everyone has given you, keep us posted
Tren should be at the end of any aas list bro.. its an advanced compound for guys who been cycling for years.. its harsh and can be hard to handle if not careful... its also the only oil that's liver toxic.. if you need to stack and have your mind set they're a lot of other choices for a clean bulk man.. good luck
I understand, thank you.
Thoughts on subbing Tren out for something like Primo/Masteron?
Both would be good choices in my opinion.. primo is more expensive so its up to you.. I'm using mast right now and so far I love it.. its nice too it has mild AI properties to help keep e2 down..I still have aromasin also..I see u said u had some bloat on arimidex.. Pick up some aromasin and see if that works better.. Everyone responds differently to ai...I must say too that you should just run a test e or c cycle at 500 or so for your first cycle.. Its not recommended really to stack at first bro.. Good luck and try to keep it as simple as you can
Thanks, boss. trying to rep you but its not working for some reason.
Anytime man..I help if I can..
RustyhookerWinny in oil, dbol in oil, var in oil, drol in oil...
True bro my bad..I wasn't thinking of those.. Any oral is taxing on the liver