My Upcoming Lean Gains Cycle... Please critique *Thanks Muta*
This is my first cycle, and I was going to run Anavar only for 75mg ED, but thanks to Muta I have decided to run Prop 100mg EOD in addition to the var
My cycle will go like this
weeks 1-8 Prop 100mg EOD
Weeks 1-2 50mg Anavar ED (To get a feel for it, and to monitor my BP)
Weeks 3-8 75mg Anavar ED
Adex 0.25mg E3D - Start once I feel effects of high estrogen/after my 2 week blood test if my estrodial is high...
3 days after Last Prop until week 13 I will use Clomid at 100/100/50/50 and Nolva at 40/40/20/10
My goals are to gain lean mass
My diet is on work out days (c/f/p) 357/79/385 - total calories 3664 (carbs focused around working out)
My diet on off days will be (c/f/p) 223/62/362 - total calories 2904
My TDEE as reported by BodyBugg is roughly 3000 over a 7 day period - However I feel this is a big inflated as I have been cutting recently and feel my metabolism has slowed slightly, So I will assume that my TDEE is 2850 Roughly, because at 2600 I was still losing about .5 a week.
I will work out 4 days a week doing an Lower/ Upper/ Lower /Upper split focusing on 8-12 rep range and focused on big compound lifts
I will do light cardio on my off days - slow walking, etc.
My current stats are
Weight - 178
BF% - ~12%
Height - 6' 0.5''
Age - 26
My concerns and questions are these:
1) Is HCG necessary for such a short and low dose cycle? Muta says no, but I have read that it is required, granted it was talking about much higher doses, but I just want to make sure I'll be back to normal after my PCT. HCG will be a problem for me if it is required as I don't think I have a place to fridge it for 8 weeks, any suggestions? -- ADDRESSED BY RUSTY HOOKER, THANKS
2) I have slightly high BP currently (120/85) and Have been prescribed Lisinopril 2.5mg everyday, I have enough, however to take 7.5mg everyday of this cycle should the Anavar or Test raise my BP too much. Do you think that will be a problem?
3) I really don't want to lose my hair- ideally, I started Minoxidil yesterday in preparation for this cycle but I have finesteride as well, but i have not been using it for fear of gyno and loss of sexual function. Should I take the fin in addition to everything else? or do you think that it wont be effective/ necessary.
4) How does my diet look? I would like to end this cycle at 190 and 9% BF, I know they are lofty goals, but I think it may be doable.
5) im also gyno prone, i think, thats why im running adex throughout the entire cycle, and to keep water weight down as well -- ADDRESSED BY RUSTYHOOKER, THANKS
Thanks for all the help from Muta for helping me design this cycle and to everyone who has chimed in with help as well.
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mh001I've decided to use Aromasin for the cycle... I will probably dose at 6.25 ED or 12.5 EOD, what is everyone consensus on this move away from Adex?
IMO if I was you I would try to gain as much as you can without gaining fat. At your height and weight I'm sure you will be happiest with the results doing that. Your off day macros look pretty good for that. Your on day macros look like a full out bulk. Which is fine but don't expect to lose 4% fat with those macros. Can you eat that much clean food or are you drinking shakes?
mh001i have about 3 shakes a day (or 600 calories), the rest being food. I kind of agree, I would like to be 190 and lose maybe a 1% of BF, or maintain my current BF%, How do you recommend I go about that? You say my on day looks like a bulk, but that is because I'm carb cycling and focusing my surplus of calories around my work outs... Any suggestions I would be happy to hear. Thanks
It looks ok. I would do the hcg 250 2x a week. 75 var is kinda high if you already have bp issues it could get worse. You could rub rogain on your head if you want. Your cycle is pretty light so I doubt that will be an issue unless your genetics dictate rapid hair loss. I'd say your diet needs the most work. That's a shit load of carbs for someone wanting to lean up. I personally wouldn't eat that many carbs if I was trying to bulk let alone lean out.
mh001I agree and I would love not to eat as many carbs but then where do i get my calories from? I still dont understand how growth occurs with roids, meaning at maintenance, how can someone gaine 4lbs of muscle and lose ~1 lb of fat? If that is the case then what would be a good surplus for my goals (190 @9%) and should I use that surplus everyday regardless of workouting or not. thanks.. You have a friend frequest as well.
And no I don't believe your goal can be met from this 8 week cycle. In order for you to hit the numbers you say that would equal a 16lb gain of muscle and a 4lb loss of fat. That's a huge difference in 2 months. I would say to change your goal to maybe gaining as much as you can while maintaining or slightly lowering your fat, like 1%. You can prob hit your weight goal this way or if you want to be ripped then try to drop your fat as much as possible while trying to maintain your weight or slightly increase it.
Are you trying to fallow the "lean gains" diet or are you saying you just want lean gains? "Lean gains diet is higher carb lower fat higher calories(500 over maint)on lift days and close to no carb and higher fat and lower calories(500 below maint) on off days. Protein always high,Both with 8 hour eating windows.
mh001I just want lean gains, I'm not trying to follow any diet. If my macros fit me into a diet that is out of sheer coincidence.
Thanks
ETA: Im not trying to follow the IF approach, I just put those macros together because that is what i read i should be eating.
mh001How does everyone here feel about starting up with the Var about 1 week prior to my first Test P shot? I have the var in hand and wanna start right away to see the effects it has on my BP alone. I figure that the var will be kicking in when I start the Test P? Any ideas/experiences?
Do you have everything on hand? Never start till you have it all on hand. And no don't start the var before the test
mh001Ya i got everything on hand. My thought process for starting the var first was to get a feel for it, and to see how my body reacted. I would start the var maybe 3 days before the test however. So nothing too crazy.
mh001Also, my nipples are puffy, I heard this is a mild form of gyno (this is why i believe im gyno prone), but there are no objects behind them, they are just puffy most of the time, unless its cold or i touch them. Will nolva help that at my PCT? Should i increase my nolva to 40/20/20/20(10)
Your probably just paranoid about Gyno which is a common fear if you've never cycled. It prob just some fat not actual Gyno. You can do nolva 40/40/20/20 with the clomid 100/100/50/50 is standard. You could also consider taking aromasin instead of Adex if you really feel Gyno is an issue for you
mh001Also, do I run the Adex until I start PCT? Like if i start it during week two do I need to continue using it throughout the entire cycle? I just dont want an estrogen rebound... I may look for some aromasin if it comes to the point where I need to start an AI, but I would prefer not to because there are minimums needed to order and I don't want to spend 150+ on Aromasin lol.
ive never ran adex so cant speak on more than just what ive read on it, you should friend request and pm j223, he loves that shit and actually uses adex THRU pct and has a dosing protocol which he uses and prevents any estro rebound. he told me what it was via pm but i forget lol.
also, check out research liquids for aromasin if you decide to go that route ... click on the drop down menu on the top right, then sources, then hgh and peptides. the #1 source on there ive used at least 5x now, all flawless transactions and excellent quality products - plus no minimum order and its inexpensive
mh001but i was under the impression that Aromasin negatively affects your hairline... can you lend any experience to that assertion?
Thanks, I will pm j223
Both of them have their own pluses and minuses. Like mike says and the makers of aromasin say it can cause hair thinning that should be regained once you stop the drug. I've also heard lots of the same complaint of Adex and hair.You would need a very low dose for this cycle so I'm not sure how much that would effect you. Aromasin will certainly do a better job preventing Gyno, raises natty test significantly along with igf1. Most people love one and hate the other. J223 loves adex and hates aromasin. Muta likes aromasin over Adex. I can't see how Adex is good in pct, but aromasin is.guess ask j about that.A lot of people say Adex messes up there lipids. Like I said you gotta try them and see what works for you. Your prob fine either way just keep doses reasonable since it's a light cycle. Best to do bloodwork to figure ai out
oh youre 100% correct on that one, happened to me so i know from experience. i thickened back up when i stopped tho.
lots of ppl will run adex all thru their cycle but then switch over to aro and run it during pct because theres no chance of rebound
mh001Thanks, how do you feel about my diet, specifically my carb levels - as addressed by another member - do you think they are too high?
mh001So do I take it that my cycle looks good as is?
thanks
RustyhookerThat bp isnt high.
Better know 8+ points to pin prop. Pin sizes?
Hcg...no
Check your last forum...adex is screamin high
mh001My Dr. says its slightly high - Im just repeating what she says. I'm going to use 25 guage needles and I do know 8 Pin places...
ALSO - do you recommend I use two needles? 1 for the draw and 1 for the pin?
I realize on my last post someone (may have been you) said that Adex is ran at a .25mg e3d (I believe, dont remember, i will have to look), but I have this fear of getting gyno and water bloat. Will running it at .5 eod be detrimental to me or my cycle? If it will then I will hold off until I see signs of estrogen (What are these signs going to be) before I take any, and I will take it at the recommended dose from my other thread.
Thanks
RustyhookerYou are responsible to read and research. You shoukd know estro high/low signs well in advance. Forums...ai/pct
I use 1 pin per day/pin time. Clean top of vial...dont blow on it...air dry.
mh001great thanks... research that info tonight.
What guage do you use for the entire process?
Also, after reviewing your post in my other thread You suggest that I get my blood tested at week 4 to see if my estrogen is high? and if it is take Adex? Would my estrogen not be high in weeks 2-3, or would it not matter as much in the long term?
Thanks.
Also which blood test would you recommend? The hormone check for males?
RustyhookerIm using 25x1 and hitting 8 areas. J223 loves adex. For me i start my ai bout day 10 since prop hits faster. Mike below suggested week 2 bloods...sounds good. First cycle is always nervous. Thats why test e is simpler, slower etc.
mh001What ai do you use and what dose?
RustyhookerI use aromasin 6.25Ed from when estro rises and adjust as needed.
J223 loves adex and he's a good one to ask as well. Adex maybe easier on a simple cycle.
mh001Thanks I'm gonna look into contacting him, but I think I'm gonna use Adex this cycle and stop it before pct just as planned. I think the nolva and clomid will help with the estro rebound.
But if I start taking the Adex and see that it is giving me problems I'm gonna invest in some aromasin and ween off of the Adex. I'll let you all know when I start my log.
im not expert on blood tests but im pretty sure the 4 week mark is recommended for longer esters that are just starting to reach peak levels in the blood at four weeks ... with prop id say 2 weeks is a much safer bet, some say they feel "on" the very next day when starting to pin prop, but for me it was exactly 8 days before i really was sure it was kickin full force.
the test most commonly used by us is in fact the hormone test for females tho my man, i know that sounds weird but its significantly less expensive and will give you all the #s you need (lh, fsh, estradiol, free and serum test)
mh001Thanks for the info... So i will get tested at the 2 week mark, Right when i start my anavar at 75mg (do you think it would be beneficial for me to start it at 50mg for 2 weeks to feel it out? or would that just be a wasted 2 weeks?)
So at week 2 I get the full female hormone test? Will they even allow me to do that? Lol
How does my diet look for my goals? Any recommendations?
i think feelin it out and waiting to bump up the dosage is some solid ass advice, always a good policy when running anythng new in my opinion. i'll honestly do the same thing when i run var for my first time too.
i forgot to mention that only if youre gettng bloods done from an "internet" lab (for lack of better description) ie privatemdlabs or something equivelant. i dont know what to ask for if youre havng them done by a MD, but im sure it couldnt be hard to find. theres a lot of good threads on bloodwork with plenty of details like that im sure, just use the search bar.
im still struggling to really nail down my diet myself, but to me it looks like youve spent a good amount of time developng your daily intake of everythng and that its consistant with your goals for the cycle. i think youre in pretty good shape
mh001Ya i am going the privatemdlabs route. Thanks again for your insight... Also, you had mentioned that you ran a prop cycle? What was the doses and results if you dont mind me asking...
not at all, i didnt run it by itself tho rather as a kicker to a long estered cycle of test e and EQ, meaning instead of waiting 4ish weeks for test e to kick in, i pinned 100mg prop ED for just over 3 weeks at the very beginning of my cycle. results are difficult to discern as i was taking other compounds too and it was only for a few weeks, but long story short i felt "on" after a week rather than the 3 1/2 weeks im used to with long esters.
I think running Anavar on your first cycle is a bad idea. I also think using prop on your first cycle is a bad idea because that shit will hurt like hell. You are asking for some serious pip on those virgin muscles I think you would be best to run test E or test C at about 500mgs per week for 10 to 12 weeks your PCT looks okay and if you use test E or test C then you will want to start your AI at around the third week. I would only start the AI if the sides appear
mh001Thank you for the suggestions, but I can only run an 8 week cycle and this seems to be the only test that I can use - not to mention i already have it... lol
i hear ya on already havng it, been in the same boat when i was suggested something different than what i had already planned, but hes totally right - prop is gonna feel like a donkey kicked the shit out of your asscheek bro. invest in a heating pad asap, mine always helps me big time with prop pip. that, ibuprofen, and hot showers. best of luck to ya man, you got this
mh001Do i need to rotate pin sites? I know that it is recommended, but if my ventroglute or glute doesnt hurt (I dont know how likely that will be) can I continue to use those spots? or will it build up scar tissue, or something like that?
thanks
once again, very easy to find with the search bar but its all good ...
youre definitly gonna have to rotate sites bud, pinning eod leaves you no other choice, youll see soon enough. i had to rotate thru 6 my last kicker with prop ED and there were times when my whole body it felt like had pip haha.
and yes, scar tissue would build and pinning through is not fun at all
mh001Thanks...
I can't figure out for the life of me how to search on this website. So, I'm sorry about that. But thanks for taking the time to respond.
By no means am I an expert but I would highly suggest looking into liver supports 10/week anavar is lengthy for a first cycle.
mh001Thank you, but I am only running it for 8 weeks. Would it be wise to lessen that time on it?
If anyone would like to share that would be fantastic as well.
8/wk sorry. I'm not qualified to answer your question but I have a feeling 50/60mg ED 5/6wk will be the conciseness for your first run with Anavar.
A Vet will chime in. GL with your cycle.
mh001Edited -