+ 9 My First Cycle
Hello everyone and first of all thank you for giving me the opportunity to find out a lot here too about how to do a first cycle and what the important factors are.
I'll give you some information about me:
Age: 34 years old
Weight: 79kg/174lb
Height: 183cm
Years of training: 10 years
BF: approximately 9%.
Nutrition: I am currently in bulk with 2900 kcal avarege
ON: 160- 425C- 50F
OFF: 160-225C-110F
NEAT: 10K die at the moment, in CUT I go up to 16k die
Integration:
-1cps at day Multivitaminic
- 1 cps Vti b12
- 1 cps Vit K
- 3 cps Omega 3
Training: 4xweek + 1 day Cardio.
After 10 years of continuous training, with consistency and discipline I follow the diet and training with pleasure and very carefully, I track the macros as you can see and follow training progressions. Until recently I was at technical failure on all series but I noticed a slow improvement in loads and progressions in general, so I decided to stay at Buffer 1 and technical failure only on isolation exercises such as lateral raises or exercises where I exceed 12 reps safely (I obviously avoid bench, deadlift, squat).
I decided I wanted to undertake my first cycle to see how my body responds since I have medium/low population genetics in general. Okay, not everyone is lucky and to get 20% of the results I have to commit to 90%, in fact from the photos you can see that I am a guy who trains but not as much as my years and experience in the weight room might say.
However, for the first cycle I thought about following the so-called "KISS": Keep It Simple, Stupid.
So here's how I planned it over 16 weeks.
I'm hoping to get some suggestions as to how I think I set it up.
For HCG I had read that 500UI (2 of 250UI) per week could be fine, but I also read that 250 could be fine as a quantity.
I also thought that being the first cycle I have the possibility of having some sides but being the first I have the possibility of noticing them as I am a "virgin" from the AAS and therefore being able to immediately notice the differences in my body.
Another thing is whether during this cycle you should supplement with some vitamins in addition to those mentioned
Thanks for your help!
| Week | Test E | HCG | Aromasin | Tamoxifene |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | ||
| 2 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | ||
| 3 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg (If I start to notice the side) | |
| 4 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 5 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 6 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 7 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 8 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 9 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 10 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 11 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 12 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 13 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 14 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 15 | 500 mg (E3,5D) | 250 UI EOD | 0,5 mg | |
| 16 | OFF | |||
| 17 | OFF | |||
| 18 | 20 | |||
| 19 | 10 | |||
| 20 | 10 | |||
| 10 |
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SnackyTWith those stats natty, you should be elite on any cycle. Test alone is a good start so you can gauge your response then add compounds as you go but don’t rush it. You don’t want to run a bunch of compounds at once and not know how you personally respond to each.
Here I am almost 4 weeks into the cycle to give you some feedback that I'm having during 500mg of Testo Enanthate.
I give the injections one in the afternoon and one in the evening every E3.5D.
I noticed that the day after doing the test my face swells, due to retention or pressure (or both?), I read that it is normal for this to happen, in any case compared to the first few times the swelling is always less than the first few times . At first I looked like a water balloon.
In the first initial phases I physically accumulated a more voluminous appearance thanks to the water retention which accompanied a notable increase in weight on the scales (+1.5kg per week), now however it always tends to increase but with less sudden increases.
TRAINING: Now, in the 3rd week, I am noticing an improvement in strength and recovery during each training session. I manage small increases in loads well and I have no shortage of strength.
MOOD: I noticed that the day after using the text E towards the evening I sometimes have emotions of slight anxiety, it doesn't always happen, but I'm starting to realize it now.
SIDE: When I wake up in the morning I notice that I sweat during the night. It's a light/medium sweat that leads me to change shirts when I wake up. It's also true that the weather is warmer than in past weeks, but I've never sweated in December.
Two days after taking Test E, my nipples are slightly more sensitive, so I assume estrus is high -
I don't seem to have any joint pain. They happen to me if I remain fixed in one position for a long time (for example with my elbow closed on the bed) but I have already had them forever so I don't consider them as side effects.
Always the day after doing the text And I get a pimple that disappears within the day, also this effect of high inspiration.
From next Monday as recommended by Makwa (thanks again for the help) I will take 0.25 mg of E3,5D (the same day as the testo injection) of Adex and I will see after 2 weeks how my E2 will be.
What happens if during these weeks until the end of the cycle I were to change from Adex to Aromasin 2.5 mg ED?
In this regard, I leave the tests I did before starting the cycle (STARTED ON 11/19/23) of the values of TOTAL, FREE AND ESTRADIOL TESTOSTERONE
EXAMS ON 11/17/23
17 BETA ESTRADIOL 9.52 pcg/ml
Normal values
Follicular phase 18-147
Pre-ovulatory peak 93-575
Luteal phase 43-214
Menopause < 58
Man 62
FREE TESTOSTERONE (1) 14.7 pg/mL
VALUES: 18-39 years: 12.3-46.6
40 59 years: 9.57-40.6
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 5.61 mcg/l
Men 3.0 10.6
Woman 0.1-0.9
Hi everyone, I'm back.
Before starting I wanted to thank all of you again for the suggestions and help I received in this thread.
I intend to use this thread as a sort of "Diary of my first cycle" so that anyone who finds themselves in the same situation as me can get inspiration on some things and I can receive some advice on how I'm doing.
Carry out blood tests as scheduled before the test, I will post them below
(Estradiol is not present as I am undergoing the tests together with free and total testosterone although it is already present in these analyzes)
Red blood cells (RBC) * 4.31 X10^12/L -----------4.40 5.80
Hemoglobin (HGB) 13.4 g/dL ----------------13.0 18.0
Hematocrit (HCT) 40.0 % ----------------40.0 50.0
RBC mean volume (MCV) 92.8 fL ----------------81.0 98.0
Mean globular HGB (MCH) 31.1 pg ---------------------27.0 33.0
Mean glob.HGB conc. (MCHC) 33.5 g/dL -------------------32.0 35.5
RBC distribution index (RDW) 12.4 % -------------------11.9 14.4
Platelets (PLT) * 99 X10^9/L -------------------140 450
Leukocyte formula
White blood cells (WBC) 4.8 X10^9/L -------------------4.0 11.0
Neutrophils 46.3 % 2.2 X10^9/L -------------------1.8 6.7
Lymphocytes 38.8 % 1.9 X10^9/L -------------------1.1 3.7
Monocytes 7.5 % 0.4 X10^9/L -------------------0.25 0.8
Eosinophils 6.1 % 0.3 X10^9/L -------------------0.05 0.65
Basophils 1.3 % 0.1 X10^9/L -------------------0.0 0.1
Sg ESR 2 mm/h -------------------2 28
S Glucose 70 mg/dL -------------------60 99
S Transaminase (ALT) 26 U/L <40
New method in use since 03/06/2020
S Triglycerides 89 mg/dL desirable: <150
New method in use since 03/06/2020
S Total cholesterol 137 mg/dL desirable: <190
New method in use since 03/06/2020
S HDL-cholesterol 59 mg/dL desirable:
New method in use since 06/03/2020 for males >40
females >45
evaluate in relation to risk
the subject's cardiovascular system.
S Creatinine 0.99 mg/dL 0.67 1.17
New method in use since 03/06/2020
Estimated glomerular filtrate 99 mL/min/1.73 m2 >90
Testosterone 4.11 ng/mL 2.49 8.36
New method in use since 03/06/2020
S TSH 2.29 mIU/L 0.27 4.20
New method in use since 03/06/2020
S FT4 1.12 ng/dL 0.93 1.70
New method in use since 03/06/2020
S Cortisol 14.5 mcg/dL
New method in use since 03/06/2020
As you can see I am average with all the values except for platelets which I have always had low since I was a boy.
CYCLE START 11/19/23
I had my first 500mg test E injection on 11/19 with a 25g needle and 3cc syringe.
Performed on the easily accessible ventrogluteus.
Performed aspiration and slow injection to avoid PIP or inflammation.
I had some PIP yesterday and slightly today but it was more due to the fact that I pierced my skin, so it's a very bearable annoyance if you do things right.
SIDE: None, obviously. It's the first injection and you don't become a hulk overnight (and maybe you will NEVER become one).
Tomorrow, therefore E3D, I will do the second injection and I was thinking of going into the opposite ventroglute compared to the first to avoid the continuous discomfort.
NUTRITION: Here I would be pleased to receive some of your opinions as although I know that a surplus is needed I would like to know what do you think is a good range beyond your TDEE to have a relationship between Benefit and less accumulation of BF.
I'm currently in surplus
KCAL 2700
Macros: 130P - 450C- 60F
Height: 183cm
Weight: 79kg (174 lb)
Thanks again for the help!
One factor that I forgot to mention and which I will do will be the blood tests in these periods listed here to check the values.
WEEK 0: Blood tests
WEEK: 12: Blood tests
WEEK 18 (After finishing PCT): Blood tests
WEEK: 25: Blood tests
How can timing work or do you plan to add/remove/modify some?
Thanks again to everyone for the interventions which are helping me a lot
Week 12 and 18 are kind of useless. Take a blood test wk 6 to determine if AI dosage is correct and adjust as necessary.
The wk 18 blood test won't tell you anything about if you are recovered, since all levels will still be elevated from the PCT meds (will prove validity that PCT meds aren't bunk if that is what you are after though)
To determine if you had a successful PCT you will want to take a blood test at least 4 weeks after finishing PCT, 6 wks after probably ideal. PCt meds can take a long time to clear system and you don't want them influencing test results.
Some really good advice below, the first cycle is the best cycle. Take it slow, soak it all in, most of all enjoy that blast!
Consider taking some organ support like TUDCA and Milk Thistle. Keep an eye on your blood pressure too. Everybody reacts differently, the more prepared you can be for your first cycle the better. Make sure you’ve got correct size needles for drawing and pinning, alcohol swabs and research around pinning technique. Continue asking questions as you have been. Experienced members on here have a wealth of knowledge and are happy to help. Wish you best of luck with your first cycle, hope it’s successful. Keep us posted. +1
Hi Robert and thanks for participating and helping me in the meantime.
Regarding blood pressure, I had thought about measuring it twice a week to understand its trend. Do you think it could be a good quantity to have an average to take into consideration? while as regards the needles I was already finding out about the size and thickness to use depending on which ester will be used: in fact I read that a 27g needle could be right for me for using this cycle if I'm not mistaken. I will definitely start in the easiest place and with the least chance of making mistakes, namely the buttocks. I think it's the best choice as a novice.
Thank you so much for the advice from TUDCA and Milk Thistle, I was aware that support for some organs was necessary, in fact I had also asked which ones would be appropriate. The more prepared and aware I am, the less likely I am to make mistakes. Here I am discovering, thanks to you, many aspects that, rightly being a novice, I had not considered and I thank you in advance for your help!
Absolute pleasure. I’m a novice myself coming towards the end of second cycle. I’d suggest using 21g to draw and 25g 1” to pin. Watch as many YouTube videos as you can regarding pinning, glutes are a good place to start, be sure to stay in the upper outer quadrant away from sciatic nerve and go in at a 90 degree angle to avoid going subcutaneous. You may have pain when pinning virgin muscle. Be prepared to change sites, ventroglutes for example. Keep ibuprofen and a heat pad to hand, I’ve had bad pip several times, although many people don’t.
In regard to blood pressure monitor it’s a good thing to have but no need to take readings too often as you don’t want to stress about it, defeats the point! Just keep an eye on it.
I like this smart cycle. +1
You aren't over complicating things like some do. Nice and simple.
Thanks DeeMan, the more I read the more I understand that at the beginning you need the essentials without complicating things since it is the first experience. The more I have the ability to keep the variables under control, the greater my chance of understanding what and if I'm doing it wrong.
Makwa basically hit the nail on the head with his input. All i can add. And maybe might not agree but i would do as many test only cycles as possible. For example. Just because you have a good for test only cycle the first time doesnt mean to add another compound the next cycle. Stick to test only cycles until you feel like you aint getting benefits from it any longer. Ive done múltiples cycles with tren and still get good results with just test only cycles.. stay healthy my friend
Absolutely. Most of my best gains have come from test only like you speak of for yourself. I couldn't of said this any better. Good advice my man. +1
First cycle I would cap at 12 wks. With 500mg of test you for sure will need an AI, unless you are in that special 1% that won't. Start it beginning wk 4. Standard dose is 25mg EOD. Looks like you are dosing for arimidex instead so you may have those mixed up. Aromasin is a better choice for AI so if you haven't got it yet I would use that over arimidex. Tamox and clomid for PCT, not just tamox. I would probably pass on the HCG for first cycle or just do a blast right before PCT. Keep those macros around 1000cals above TDEE to take advantage of the increased nutrient partitioning and make sure to hit at least 1.5g/lb of protein and you should have a pretty successful cycle.
I’m that special 1%
Hi Makwa and thanks for replying. Yes, to be on the safe side, I still thought about keeping AI handy in case I could have some sides (it's always better to prevent) and you noticed well, I got confused and I thank you for pointing it out to me, so it's better to opt for Aromasin since it goes well with the idea of combining it with HCG which I will start it a few weeks before the PCT, about 2 weeks
So reasoning on what has been said I could opt for the following:
WEEK 1-12: Testo 500mg E3D
WEEK 4-12: Aromasin 25mg E0D
WEEK 10-12: 250 IU EOD and Aromasin 25mg E0D
2 WEEK OFF
WEEK 1-4:Tamox 10 mg and Clomid 25 mg ED
What do you think Makwa like this? In total it would be 16 WEEKS including PCT, or maybe you meant 12 WEEKS TOTAL including PCT?
Thanks again for the help!
My bad, clomid just got my attention.
Warning..clomid will make some folks feel like straight trash. I mean it can really mess with your emotions and have you feeling sluggish. But it affects some people more so than others. Just a reminder.
Proper pct is integral in helping to keep some gains. Wish we could keep all those gains though. That's just the way it is though.
Hi DeeMan, thanks for your attention and advice.
I read some sides of Clomid and what I took most into account were the possible visual discomfort (if taken in high doses), nausea and hot flashes. Also water retention but this will be greater if the diet is unbalanced and uncontrolled. They are unlikely to happen from what I read, but they are still a probability. My intention as Makwa rightly pointed out is to increase the dose in the PCT of Clomid as it is low to be able to help
However, I reserve the right to add others as I continue the study.
My bad I forgot to mention but yea those are called floaters and I've experienced them before myself. And about dosages for clomid, I've seen different dosages used. 25mg and 12mg were actually the lowest dosage used. I just can't see how 12mg is effective though.
Surely you know more than me, regarding the readings taken for a dose that can avoid increasing floaters are from 50 to 100mg ED. Being a novice I would have the opportunity. if you see through blood tests that the PCT is going slower than necessary to increase them or if you have floaters to drop to half (25mg ED)
Yea that's the key, if something doesn't feel right you gotta abort asap. Yea clomid is a tricky drug as far as doses. I remember back in the day guys were claiming 150-200mg. Lol they had to be an emotional wreck and feel like trash.
Nothing for me to say that hasn't already been said to you. But just remember and I'll repeat..HCG will increase estrogen levels a bit which comes with increasing testosterone levels. Also there's a school of thought that using too much of hcg for way too long will desensitize the testicles to LH. I haven't seen proof of this though but I do believe it. Good luck and be safe.
The 12 weeks would be just the use of anabolics. You would take an 18 day break and then start a 4wk PCT. There are 2 schools of thought when it comes to HCG use for a cycle. You can use it entire cycle to prevent atrophy or just use at end to wake things back up and get set for PCT. Both have pros and cons so you have to pick your own poison. Personally, for a 12 week cycle of test only, I don't think HCG is warranted. Start to lengthen cycle or add in a 19-nor then it definitely is a consideration. Adding it to a simple test cycle can just make things more complicated than they need to b. Your choice though. It does convert to estrogen so you have to be more aware of your AI to prevent sides.
If you are going to use it entire cycle you want to start with 250iu 3x/wk (M-W-F). Just use lowest possible dose to keep nuts inflated (may even need to go up to 500iu 3x/wk) but as you increase dose you also risk driving estro up. If using as a jumpstart to PCT then just use 500iu 3x/wk for last 2-3 wks, be aware of estro spike once again. Once you know your balls are working again, then stop. See how this just makes it more complicated for a simple first cycle.
Thanks again for sharing Makwa.
Given the more than reasonable and rational options, I could opt to use HCG as a starting point for PCT and, to avoid the peak of estrus that could occur, combine it with Aromasin 25mg E0D. Since you don't consider it justified, its use for a 12 week cycle is due to its short cycle length and consequently less possibility that the natural production of LH is too low?
Given your advice and considerations, the plan would be something like this:
WEEK 1-12: Testo 500mg E3D
WEEK 4-12: Aromasin 25mg E0D
WEEK 9-12: 500 IU E2D and Aromasin 25mg E0D
18 DAYS OFF
1-4: Tamox 10 mg and Clomid 25 mg ED
If you are going to use HCG, start low at 250iu (MWF) first and then increase dose if need be.
Rethink that PCT. Those dosages are way too low to aid in recovery.
You are absolutely right, it is better to start from the bottom with HCG as it is the first time and I can notice the sensations and how I respond, as it may also be that 250 IU (MWF) could be more than fine.
I continued to delve deeper and actually in PCT the doses are low for them to have an effect, so I thought of doubling them, even if for a short duration like 4 weeks perhaps they should be higher but considering a consideration like HCG at most I could extend the treatment by 2 weeks PCT maintaining the usual doses.
Recapitalizing, with the appropriate modifications it would look like this:
WEEK 1-12: Testo 500 mg E3D
WEEK 4-12: Aromasin 25 mg E0D
WEEK 9-12: 250 IU (MWF) and Aromasin 25 mg E0D
18 DAYS OFF
WEEK 1-4: 20mg Tamox and 50mg Clomid ED
PCT:
Wk 1-2 40mg tamox and 100 clomid
wk 3-4 20mg tamox and 50 clomid
What's the reason for why you rate Aromasin better than Adex bud?
Asin helps increase IGF a little bit and is a suicide inhibitor. No chance for estro rebound. Adex can depress IGF. Only negative with asin is it is more expensive and it need to be taken more frequently due to much shorter half-life. Both effective AI's but given the chance I would choose asin over adex.
Thumbs up on this all day long!
Thanks Drexyl, I'm happy that my study and use of readings in informing myself have put a good first cycle on paper. The essentials without distorting anything as it is my cycle
The first cycle your going to love it!!!!!
I'm curious to see what it will bring me although aware that it won't be the immense growth one might expect. I am very realistic about this, however I am certain that I will definitely see improvements
If everything you wrote about your previous natural training regime is correct you will hut the group running. And will respond to the gear every well because unlike most, you didn't start using gear around the same time you joined the gym. You put the work in and will now repe the rewards.
You will see more than some improvements.
Solid first cycle, expect to feel it kicking in slowly around week 4, you will feel the libido changes on week 2 tho
Thanks for the reply and the confirmation that I may have made an informed choice. Based on what you said about the change in libido, would it be wiser to anticipate Aromasin starting from week 2 if there were sides?
You probably won’t need aromasin on week 2 but everyone may have a different experience, listen to your body, and don’t crash your e2 out of paranoia.
I absolutely agree with you, I take aromasin to be safe if the symptoms arise and I feel them. It's not a given that I could have seen them the first cycle and with a single compound such as test E, but I think it's always a good idea to have them on hand in case things change after the second week.