+ 1 Gains from EPO
I am a lifelong endurance athlete (running, triathlon and bike racing). I tried my first cycle of EPO. Diving into the world of endurance gains and blood doping I was under the impression that taking that drug you would see serious noticeable gains in performance. A lot of studies show that your time to exhaustion and V02 max go up between 5%-10%+. Some studies are inconclusive. With that said reading tons of material on professional cycling in the 90's-2000's when EPO was first abused by the peloton; a lot of the pros talk about once it was introduced the speed of the peloton went up so steeply that if you were not taking the drug you could barely hold on in races. Also accounts of heavier sprinters (usually heavier and have trouble getting over mountain stages in multi day tours like the TDF etc..) who normally could barely get over mountains in grand tours, were winning mountain stages. Everyone's favorite doper Lance Armstrong said EPO was "rocket fuel" and "minimum provided 10% gains."...So naturally when I took the drug I thought that I would notice serious performance improvement. I got my hematocrit up to around 52.3 and my hemoglobin around 17.1 (from a base of around 44 and 15ish). While I have seen my power increase on the bicycle it is so subtle it is hard to tell if it is just from hard structured training or the drug itself. I guess what I am getting at is the gains are underwhelming. Maybe that is just the way it goes with different physiologies or perhaps I have not jacked my blood values high enough into the more dangerous territories to see a difference. I know there are not a lot of endurance athletes on these threads (let along endurance athletes who have cycled EPO) but would love to hear anyone's experience or insight. Thanks in advance.
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Hi, just joined. Very interesting discussion. I ordered some epo from india but not sure it works, how do i know if its working?
I was getting my blood checked every week to check my hematocrit and hemoglobin levels as well as the amount of new red blood cells being produced.
Fellow cyclist here. Those guys were getting their hematocrit up to 60 or above. Current UCI cutoff is 50 but the tests are planned, not surprise, so most guys are at least 53 because they can super-hydrate to test lower. In the 90s they were also running test, high dose vitamins, gluco- and corticosteroids and sometimes nandrolone or eq. Obviously, actual protocols are hard to find but you can see what teams, riders and doctors got caught with and make some assumptions. Lance admitted to the list above in his deposition. One team (Festina maybe?) had to drop out of a race because the entire team got sick from bad TPN fluid they were using to recover and fuel overnight. I have an endurance stack I’ve been running that has gotten me about 50 watts by itself and another 30-50 from increased recovery:
20 mg cardarine ED
80 mg telmisartan ED (stacks with cardarine and like half the peloton is on it since it’s legal)
50-100 mg NAD+ ED
1000 mg b12 ED except on days I take lipo-c
Lipo-c 1 ml MWF
1 mg slu-pp-332 ED
50 mg 5amino-1mq ED
5 iu hGH ED
350 test e/c weekly
200 primo e weekly
This is a stack that I’ve come up with through my own research and the advice of a trusted guy on here who is very knowledgeable about peptides. I sent you a friend request so feel free to PM me if you want. I love talking cycling and think the doping culture surrounding it is fascinating and honestly an integral part of the sport. They were already doping back in the 1800s with cocaine and strychnine.
What’s your epo source?
RomuloThat’s a solid stack. I’m somewhere new to doping so I’m looking for advice, on how to max out my speed as a triathlete. So I was thinking in running
Test 150 + 300 eq
3,000iu epo
4iu hgh
25mg cardarine
This is on theory, but I haven’t been able to find any sources for epo
https://thinksteroids.com/articles/medically-supervised-epo-dosing-proto...
I can relate a bunch of information if you want to dm me..
DrugUser127272Could you add me as a friend? I'd like to ask you something about this.
Got added, PM whenever you want
That’s a pretty solid stack !
Hematocrit is just one pathway and I'd say 53-54% is the sweet spot if you're keeping your blood thin. But you can increase it to that range with test alone. The other pathways you want to hit is mitochondria with stuff like coq10 + pqq. If you take cardarine make sure you take it with Lcar
What is Lcar? Any idea on dosages of Cardarine?
Ranger3252I have never bought into EPO or ESA agents. I mean sure theoretically speaking the more red blood cells you have the more oxygen would be delivered. However my thinking is the higher your Hematocrit levels are the likelihood of endurance increases would have the opposite effect.
These elevated levels can lead to symptoms like dizziness, vision problems, increased risk of blood clots, shortness of breath and endurance loss. As @SeeOhShow stated, these professionals were more than likely on other compounds and were under the care of a specialist.
I would imagine they’re taking other things to boost power on top of endurance benefits from EPO. I wouldn’t call myself an endurance athlete but I do go for long (ish?) runs. This morning was 6.5 miles. SLU Pp 332 and cardarine seem to give noticeable cardio boosts. You could try stacking those with your EPO?
On the documentary, Icarus, the guy used stanzolol injections. But ended up performing worse on his doped race than his non doped one
The Icarus guy did an interview a few years back where he explains that if he hadn’t crashed and had a mechanical he would have finished around am hour faster and been in the top ten. He also says that when he did it clean he was wrecked for months afterwards while in the doped race he basically felt fully recovered every day. I’m planning on doing the same race in 2027. Interestingly, it is won every year by guys that hot booted out of pro cycling for doping (it’s technically an amateur’s only race) or guys that end up getting busted eventually.
Interesting. I didn’t realize there was follow up info for that documentary. It’s a great watch though.
Yes I have heard that Stanzolol alone can give you insane power/endurance gains as well.
Hello,
I have run EPO periodically over the past 2 years running an hypothetical i was working on, and find that my experiences align with yours. While I did not not run this for the purposes of endurance, rather as a way to optimize oxygen delivery to increase recovery and increase blood cells to assist angogensis development (all this was to test a hypothetical idea I have). While I have seem some increase in power output and reduction in recovery. I have found that the cost to benefits ratio are extremely underwhelming in terms of performance, angeogensis or otherwise. I will say that my general energy levels across the board wre noticiably better, I cant necessarily justify that as a valid reason alone to continue w/ the potential for increased sides. It could be very well that I run my dosages more conservatively to lessen the possiblity of major side effects such as high BP or the potential for clotting. My next round in 6 weeks i will bump up the dosage to see any change in results
That being said since i didnt use this for the purposes of endurance athletics, to which I cannot speak to results in that regards, your experience similarly aligns with mine as an "underwhelming" performance enhancer, nor with what cardio i did do, i didnt notice that things became "easier".
I personally have had more luck with VO2 max output and endurance enchancement running a legitmate form of the liquid form of GW- Cardarine. I have run that both solo, on cycle, and have have found it particularly useful while shredding (not as a fat loss aid, but rather as a way to keep energy levels up and boost RBC to a minor degree, so my veins look absolutely insane) or while running a cycle of tren to lessen the cardiovasular and fatigue side effects of that compound (though i am not a high tren A or E responder, I respond better to tren hex))
As such, if i were to compare a 6 week cycle of EPO to a 6 week cycle of GW-Cardarine, Cardarine wins in cost to benefits ratio as well as in overall results. The only circumstance i would foresee EPO being useful would be at an elite level of endurance based competitions where ever split second counts, and it would be likely that those athletes would just simply stack Cardarine and EPO together. Though regarding any medical condition that would result in lower blood cell counts, such as the loss of blood, or otherwise, then I would say EPO is 100% a better route to kickstart your bodys ability to produce more blood cells
Apologizes for getting off track, seldomly do you see people discussing this compound and wanted any potential readers to have a well rounded view between both our experiences (readers, if your a bodybuilder, or looking to enhance your physique, in my experience, EPO isnt really worth the money, go buy cardarine or anadrol if you are looking for RBC boosting, obviously results can vary)
Thank you for the responses. Can you shed some light on your GW-Cardarine cycle? I have heard that Cardarine can improve endurance performance but know very little about the substance.