+ 1 Definitive answer on NPP/EQ in the same cycle
I have been reading for about three hours now and nothing posted recently seems to have a definite answer about stacking npp and EQ in the same cycle (i.e. Whether it's safe, effective, practical, etc.) Every other post claims it's been done and fine while every other claims it's unnecessary or impractical. I am hoping someone can help me or lead me to an answer as I am planning this for my next run.
I am 27y.o., 5'10", 237 lbs about 12-13% BF currently and have run several cycles ranging from low dose test/deca (300mg T 250mg D) for 10 weeks to high dose cycles with test closer to 1300mg deca 450mg for 20 weeks as well as tbol to start. I am currently off cycle but prepping for my next which I would like to try and continue gaining lean muscle while dropping my bf into the 7-9% range, and was considering the following:
Weeks 1-5
ED - 40mg Turinabol split dose
Weeks 1-20
E3D - Sustanon: 300mg
EQ : 200mg
NPP: 100mg
Originally this cycle was going to be test/EQ only with the tbol kick start however I have recently read from several trusted sources that You can run a low dose of npp (200-250 /wk) mainly for the therapeutic benefits of nandrolone without the long estered side effects from deca and as I have had several surgeries on both of my shoulders and find it helps extremely well I would like to do this if possible. Unfortunately as I stated previously finding out whether it's okay to use all three together for this period of time has been very difficult with mixed answers at best. If someone with experience or the knowledge to help me could do so it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
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Ive ran them together, it was a decent cycle. I ran them separate in the same cycle and liked that better. I would consider deca and EQ more so then NPP and EQ simply due to ester lengths and pinning protocol.
Because EQ takes so long to kick you can effectively run both in the same cycle with little overlap. Meaning NPP 1-8
EQ 1-16
When you say the long estered side effects from deca what exactly does that mean?
ive ran deca, eq together , it works if esters match, it can be done, shorts with longs just seems impractical, what he proposed is too much up and downs , too many valleys, kick ins, down time etc.
Mostly referring to the water retention from deca but I also am very prone to deca dick so I'd rather be able to have it clear my system three times faster if need be.
Ok I read through your post. 1st thing is dont read source cycles or advice, very few know what they are talking about. We have kicked a number of them out of the steroid section for piss poor advice.
As to your question? yes you can run them together. As a matter of fact you can run anything together, the question is whether or not its productive and safe.
So the bads about long term deca cycles are mostly shutdown and high risk of not recovering. NPP is the same but with the added higher risk of infection from EOD pinning. Water retention, deca dick, gyno, are most of the time controlled by an AI such as adex and caber.
deca and EQ? it is often said they fight for same receptor and are useless together. Beats me, my experience was decent gains as expected with a much fuller appearance and feeling. increased cardio and endurance, most likely from some water retention and increased RBC. The cycle I ran was for gains not therapeutic. Therapeutic deca cycle would be around 200mg/w, you should not encounter sides from this dose.
NPP and EQ? for your goals I honestly wouldnt waste my time with EOD pinning when I could pin deca once a week and get same results.
Awesome. Thank you for all the helpful info. So I will forego the EQ completely as it seems it's just more than I need. So is it safe to say that for the main compounds I can run cyp/deca for 12 weeks to bulk and prop/npp/mast for about 10 weeks to cut? Winstrol is not an option for me as it is very counterproductive to my shoulder health.
So your proposing 2 cycles? one after the other for 20 weeks?
I'm saying I would do the bulker every fall into winter and the cutting every late spring to summer
well by then youll have changed your mind so lets deal with what is going on when the time comes!
well said mate, i ran the eq 6 weeks longer than deca, i noticed alot of the " puff " diminished, and i got harder and more vascular in those 6 weeks, i found mast much better for this, i had bp issues from eq, now i run mast prop tail end to harden and condition deca cycles, best thing i ever done, keep size from deca, add mast prop, continue growing while leaning up a bit, eq is trash too me now lol.
You just gotta find out what works for you. Good luck.
My goal is to cut my bf about 4-5% while increasing my lean muscle mass and strength
Bodybuilding IS reducing fat while simultaneously building muscle.
RustyhookerIts really near impossible to do both cut and add mass. I've chased that tail for years. Cutting is 100% foods. Cardio and strict diet. Your stats have you as a big feller. You'll look twice as big just getting towards 10%. 5-6% is torture unlesd you're going on stage.
Test/mast e/var 8-14 . Mild doses 500/300/50. 12 Weeks long Esters. Pct 2 days after var stops.
Food guru is your best bet.
Ight yea this sounds like a good idea I will keep the test EQ for bulking and run the sus with mast to cut. Sometimes I just try to make too much happen at once and need a little reminder that any gear isn't a miracle drug. Since I seem to have all this on hand other than the var I will probably just do what you said for this cycle and save the EQ to take with some cyp next year in the winter. Thanks for all the input
RustyhookerWork with Roid up top too. He knows nors much better.
RustyhookerWhats your goals? Reading your post and your plan below it seems you're sorta lost or overthinking.
I personally love the test pp and npp cycle you can pin twice a week and I believe you can run it as a cutter or a bulk just by changing up your diet. I have ran this a couple time and it works very week for me.
EQ is only effective at a minimum of 400 a week; also Tbol has a half life of 16.5 hours so once a day is all you need and 40mg is also not enough. You need at minimum 50mg a day of Tbol.
Those are not the weekly doses.. That's how much I'll be pinning every third day. And like I said it's not that I feel I need both, I wanted to run a cutting/hardening cycle with test/EQ but want to add the npp for my shoulders. Also when I said a trusted source posted that both compounds together was fine I meant a source of knowledge not gear. Let me revise this to see if it makes more sense this way.
Week 1-5
Tbol @ 40mg a day (have taken this dose before with amazing results any higher and I'd be worried about pumps getting too painful or annoying)
Week 1-13
Mon Wed Fri
Sustanon-250mg for total of 750mg /week
EQ-200mg for total of 600mg /week
NPP-100mg for total of 300mg /week
I still fail to see any synergy in what you expect to happen on this cycle. EQ is really not for any leaning since the hunger pains will cause you to eat anything in sight, Tbol at 40mg a day is a bridge amount and hopefully you are expecting nothing from it but maybe a few more reps. it seems that you had some pretty off the wall cycles with heavy amounts and you are just reaching at this point. have you taken the time and read some of our heavy hitters cycles; and how they consist of 500mg or less of 1 compound and MAYBE 1 oral as a finisher?
Also what would you consider off the wall about a test/deca cycle? I did a low dose cycle for 10 weeks as my first cycle to assess my reaction to the drugs. After increasing both several times I found that my best results of deca without sexual side effects was at 450mg a week so for my last cycle I ran test at 1250 and deca at 450 for 20 weeks. I don't understand what you see about that as "off the wall" when it's a standard cycle for bulking. I don't follow the "as much time as you spent on, take off" protocol so a 26week off time isn't a problem for me. I apologize if this seems written in attitude or trying to start an argument as I assure you it is not. I do appreciate the insight and the advice given on this forum it's just that I was not really seeking a critique of my cycle so much as I was just trying to get an answer to whether or not EQ and npp were safe to stack.
How do you fail to see synergy? EQ is easily used in bulking or cutting cycles dependent on diet which I have control over regardless of how hungry EQ makes me. I understand that when your bulking you take less compounds but I also understand that when your cutting you take more compounds because your more dependent on gear for muscle preservation when there's less food intake. Test/EQ is an extremely common stack. All I am asking in this post is whether or not I could add npp to my test/EQ stack at a low dose for my joints. I have had orthoscopic and open surgery on both shoulders and the therapeutic effects of nandrolone make it twice as easy for me to train. However I am not going to take deca in a cutting cycle so I asked about npp not because I'm trying to stack a hundred and one drugs but because I want to take test/EQ but also want the benefit of nandrolone. That is all I'm asking here. And as far as the tbol dose is concerned everybody reacts differently if you need a certain mg of tbol everyday I understand that but I do not. I've gotten the desired results from 30mg a day in the past and feel no need to push it past 40 when I'm already taking three other compounds.
Point tasken; but like Flash said you will end up masking problems/issues after cycle. Trust me on that as I developed severe tendonosis that was masked by my last cycle. It hit me hard last month and things have not been the same as far as how much I can lift like I used to. So to answer your question it can be run it's just up to you if you want to delay the inevitable. I was not referring to one persons use of tbol over another; I was referring to the fact that Tbol was medically used in germany for many years and at doses under 50mg the only thing that it did was help increase strength and nothing more on the lines of muscle retention or growth. It only helped lower shbg by a certain amount. I would know; I love tbol and try to incorporate it in quite a few of my cycles. SO if small amounts of Tbol produce results for you then scientifically speaking small amounts of stronger androgens will be right on the same venue. Tbol is the mildest andro besides Anavar. Anyways if you want to use the npp noone is stopping you; just remember what can happen after the cycle is over; you could over-exert and a few weeks after start feeling the fire.
Okay cool thanks again for the advice. I will run it at 750 test 600 EQ for 13 weeks and kick start with 60mg tbol for four weeks instead of doing the 40mg for five weeks and see how I feel a month into it without any npp.
Cool; remember to use a week to deload especially with existing injuries. I wasn't telling you what to do with the tbol, I was trying to help you get the best of it. Also you only need to take it once a day due to the long half life of 16 hours but you could split it up. I did not notice a difference doing either. I found the sweet spot to be right where you are going to take it; 60mg. Good luck on your cycle and remember that the Tbol lowers shbg so with the increase of free test an AI is going to be needed even though the EQ is 50:1 andro.
brother, nandro just masks symptoms, setting up for further injury, keep it simple, 4 compounds togethr that dont gel = shitty cycle, test is your base, toss the tbol, now you want to match esters, longs with longs shorts with shorts-
Thank you for the simplified explanation regarding the long and short esters but I was always under te impression that nandrolone had a therapeutic effect bc of it's anti inflammatory mechanism. I thought that it helped me because of my arthritis pain. My symptoms are not of anything like tears or damage because that has all been corrected. I just deal with major arthritis in my joints because of my past career
anti imflammatory cytokines are increased on cycle, so is collagen synthesis, on cycle! temporarily masking symptoms, when you come off your fkd due to inreased trauma from strength gains, pushing more weight and doing more unrealised damage.
200 mgs eq is way low, 600mgs is average dose for eq
its not practical bro, pick one or other, why do you need both? eq @ 200 is low, 20 week cycle too long, it will mean at least 26 weeks after pct, why not shorter cycle?of course source would say that more cash for them.