cycle advice please (T-BOL)
Current body weight 208 ibs body fat percentage is around %15 percent. age is 35
Cycle history: Been on 200mg a week of test cyp for trt since october 2012. Blast twice a year for generally 12-17 week cycles. have experience with the following compounds (mg is as high as i have gone)... test prop 100mg eod, test E, 500mg/week, test C 500mg/week, dbol 50mg in 2 split dosages a day, anavar at 60mg a day, ran masteron prop at 100mg eod for just 2 short weeks for a promo and i have gone as high as 750mg of sus on cycle before.
Liver support: I stay on 1000mg a day of milk thistle at 3 times a day.
Diet: 5 meals a day with moderate carbs and high protein... basically i just try to eat clean. small meals and often. I don't really count calories. i don't compete in bodybuilding or anything. I keep my protein at around a gram per pound of body weight a day.
Work out history: I have been training in the gym for about 15 years. Trained in jiu-jitsu and played baseball/football in school. Also competed in point fighting tournaments in karate.
Current plan for upcoming cycle: (12 weeks) 4-5 days in the gym per week. 10 minute cardio warm up followed by weights then elastic stretching to finish.
Weeks 1-12 Test sus270mg 2 times a week while maintaining my trt dose of 200mg test cyp per week.
Weeks 1-4 oral tbol at 60mg a day. (for AI I have anastrozle on hand as needed) suggestions for mg are welcomed.)
Now from what i understand about tbol it is a 17-alpha alkylated which is harsh on the liver. will my milk thistle dosage be enough for the above posted cycle? and will i be using enough mg? too much? given my cycle history and stats. What can i expect from tbol as far as sides and gains? Thank you in advance for your much appreciated advice and please forgive me if i left out any vital information needed for such advice. let me know and i will post any stats needed.
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Personally, for liver support, I think the best product is TUDCA. You can take Silymarin with it if u want. The following article is fabulous and goes through the various options on liver support.
http://antaeuslabs.blogspot.com/2011/07/few-words-on-hepatotoxicity-of-1...
milk thistle is clinically tried, proven and tested, your dosage is way to low though, i take 9 7000mg tablets of it daily on orals, with the liv52 best pay extra and buy from respectable chemist, buying online is a massive risk of getting fake counterfeited stuff from india, get som nac aswell, beetroot juice works wonders also, stack them all bro, cranberry extract for kidneys. taurine for back pumps, high dose krill oil and vitamin e for cholesterol. eat big get big.
Ya milk thistle is clinically tried, proven and tested to be almost worthless due to extremely low oral bioavaibity. Won't hurt but don't make it out to be some wonder drug. Other things are necessary to protect the liver. And your cholesterol supp suggestions are fucking terrible. All of us should already be taking a good dose of omega 3s. A lot more then just that is needed to keep lipids in check when using oral steroids.
Never thought about the possibly of getting fake liv52 tho. Got some in the mail I hope it's not fake.
lol no one should be taking advice from you, i remember you, your statement is laughable, i dont respond to unintelligible people like you with no brains, glad to see you out of minus with your troll posts deleted. another 24 yo.lmao. you get a plus coz i negged u by accident.
Depending on if your lab is good or not will determine if 60mgs is enough but it's definitely a great dose to start at. I personally would extend the kick start to 5-6 weeks. It doesn't kick in quite as fast as something like dbol or anadrol. Milk thistle is definitely not enogh tho. Keep taking your milk this but add in something like liv52 ds. It's like 6 bucks a bottle for 60 so 3 of them for 18 bucks would allow you to use 4 a day for 6 weeks. I've also used Tyler's liver detox which in my opinion is a great product but it's more expensive. There's also tudca and essentialle forte that I've heard great things about. Any one of these products with your milk thistle will be good. But one thing people over look with a drug like tbol is the negative effects it has on lipids. You need to put together a nice little stack to keep your cholesterol in check. I personally use 2400mgs twice a day of red yeast rice, 20mgs once a day of policansol and 4 triple stregnth fish oil pills ed and it's Always worked great at keeping everything in range. That stack did wonders for my LDL and trygliserides off cycle to. Bright my tris down from like 140 or something to 70!
As far as gains and sides it's like a slightly weaker dbol without the bloat. So you can expect some nice dry lean gains. And some insane back and calve pumps for sides.
TronThis is the type of info i needed brotha! You without a doubt have a lot of knowledge my friend. and if that's you in the pic you should be damn proud every time you look in the mirror! is liv52 available any place you know other than online or will i need to order it? + 1 for the valuable knowledge by the way
They have an american version of it. Made by the same company as liv52 and to me it looks like the same blend of ingredients. its not called liv52 tho i think its called liver care by himalaya or something. I picked it up at vitamin shop but it was like 30 bucks for 90-120 caps. So for this cycle i just went online and got 180 double strength liv52 for half the price. Id suggest doing that. Btw my profile pic is not me, just my favorite physique. My pics are up tho you can see my 3 year transformation. jus posted it yesterday check it out.
Trongot ya man. and checked out the pics... nothing but an incredible transformation!!
Bro be careful with red yeast rice in cycle, especially with harsher orals as I remember reading that it contains lovastatin, which is pretty hars on the liver itself. I was thinking about using it myself but it scared me and I decided to keep it to omegas and clean diet.
Ya Ive read that the makers of lovastatin wanted RYR taken off the market because of it. But I took it the one time ( and last time) I used that toxic garbage superdrol. The blood work I got done 2 weeks after the superdrol was perfect. Liver and lipids both perfect. But definitely something to keep in mind. It really does wonders for my lipid profile.
I also use Liv-52 as a liver support. As far as tbol dosage I think you are right on point. Better to start with lower dosage and you can always bump it up. You can expect nice mass and strength increase. Kinda similar to dbol but cleaner and with less bloat. I see it as an intermediate between dbol and winny. I ran it anywhere from 50-100mg and found 100mg to be too much as it gave me some bloat and pumps were too much. I couldn't walk for more than 4 blocks without my calves killing me. 60-80 is a sweet spot for me
Tron+1 for your detailed description of your experience as well as the advice. Thank you.
Brother I am a firm believer that milk thistle is not a good candidate for liver support. IMO it makes things worse because adding in milk thistle becomes another compound your body has to breakdown putting even more strain on the liver. I know it's used for people who already have a predianosged liver disorder to help alleviate some of the symptoms, however It does not prevent the initial onset of the issues. Right now I can find no studies indicating that milk thistle is beneficial at lowering liver enzyme levels. If you on the other hand have a link to a study or report that proves otherwise I would love to read it bro. I would suggest LIV-52 as it very purpose of conception is to reduce liver enzyme values.
Tron+1 on the good info bro. I have read so many mixed reviews about milk thistle and can't find anything that proves it is effective. I have been thinking about switching to liv52 but i believe i will have to order it? I don't think it is available at GNC but i'm not sure. Thank you for the info man. I will for sure take it to heart and apply it. I am new to Tbol and that is the real question I am trying to answer is what to expect from your experience and is my dosage correct considering my stats and history? I have a good bit of experience with a lot of compounds but i always like to get advice on any new one I am trying.
Best liver support - NAC N-acetyl Cysteine
No problem brother, the guys at GNC will tell you anything to make their commission....In short my tbol experiences always sucked.. I've tried three separate brands and either all three we're bunk or the stuff just doesn't work for me... I started out at 30 mgs and I tried it all the way up to 100 mgs.. nothing... not the slightest pump bro... so I really have no idea
Trondifferent compounds for different folks i guess brother. It would be unlikely I would think to get 3 bunk batches if you are using good sources but it's not impossible. Anyways thank you brother once again and have a great rest of the day.
No problem dude, I thought the same thing; I opt for quality products so I know my sources are respectable... just like you said "different compounds for different folks"... same to you my friend have a great day.