posted Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:02
3000
cycle advice for tren e and deca
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HI,
I am really a novice at cycling, have run two in the past, very basic, anyway was thinking of doing this next one as 5-6 month cycle with post theryapy as follows.
test e 300-350mg/week plus deca 200 mg/wk for 3 mos
then stop deca and add tren e plus anavar for last two mos
aromasin three times a week on cycle plus 250iu hcg in there somewhere
pct aromasin every day plus some nolvadex maybe every other day for 6 weeks tapering both off last week or so.
Any advice on this cycle and/or using deca and tren this way or stacking them instead would be greatly appreciated.
thanks you!
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if you are running nolva for pct you have to dose every day you cant take it couple here and there a standard pct would be clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20 and at your age trying to come back from a 20 week cycle would be pretty hard
yea I know I read a ton of crap on pct and I think I know how to do it with clomid and temox though the info is all conflicting as to which drugs the dose and timing is pretty consistent. I was taking temox three times a week only during cycle then temox tapering to temox then clomid for the ptc. Now I read that aromacin is a much better choice though during and after cycle though I am unclean on if and why I need to add temox or clomid with it. Any ideas?
thanks man
It doesn't look good my man, we need more stats bro.
oh sorry i am 43yo have been an athlete all my life and working out regularly more or less for past 15 yrs. I am 5.10 170-175 lbs.
tread-mAs has been mentioned, you need bloods for your current levels that would include free test and estrogen. You are likely very low which would push my advice to trt/hrt. It is difficuot to advance if you spike test on cycle through the roof and then fall to the pits under 200 after. Very few scenarios , if any, would suggest that to lead to success. If you would like trt help and cycle advice once you finish up here you are welcome to PM me.
OH yea I def would love to pm you tread. I cant figure out how or where to do that on here. Sorry I am so clueless! I did look into hormone replacement with my reg doc because I wanted help with steroids at the gym mostly but I didnt tell him that. He tested my levels and I was low normal. All he would do is put me on a max dose of 200/wk test which brought me up to 900-1000 plus total test range but he would not give me any antiestrogens or hcg. After 6 mos I was getting neg feedback from the test I think. I did research and felt I should be on ancilliaries. Yes I did look into hrt (btw what is trt?) I had a ton of stuff looked at by an hrt doc. after stopping the test and letting myself get to a baseline. Basically my test was low 300, I forget what the free was but it was low normal for my age they said. Cortisol was very high though. He didnt have a reason and wanted me to do a sleep study. Bullshit, I dont have sleep issues. Anyway they suggested taking test at a moderate dose like a third a body builder (double what the reg first doc I saw suggested) dose then suggested adding deca at very low dose then add all nolva during and stay on all this for 5 mos. That is where I got started with this long cycle. Then pct was clomid and nolva. This is like a low builder regimen so then I am like why not just do some higher dose cycles, get some real results if I am going to take all these meds anyway. Then another guy from the same company tells me now they want you to stay on all this forever and not cycle. I am really confused. I can not figure out what is the right thing to do with all this conflicting info.
Thanks I really greatly appreciate your help with it!
tread-mClick on my name and my page comes up, click friend request under avi and I'll accept it.
Stats ?? AGE??
tread-mOh hell no..and...age/stats/bf%
Tread, I figured I would ask you since we are on the subject of a shitty cycle with 2 19 Nors together. I read somewhere that said to never run 2 19-Nor compounds together right? Too many sides? Can you shed some light on this? Also this guy needs to do some more research on pct, cycle length, ect... and not mess with tren for a while.
I have this article bookmarked. Thought it might help u understand better. Keep in mind this article is only referencing the use of one 19nor and we are talking about running 2 19nors. If one is risky imagine two!
http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/19-nor-testosterone-an...
At his age he should get a blood test and check his levels don't u think? At least just to get a baseline of his endogenous test before touching anything.
so tell me why not pls?
because first you want to run it way to long second you dont even know proper pct so you should be doing more research and third you dont have enough experince to run tren
Man I have been reading and reading til I am blue in the face and I got a lot of other shit I should be doing but I dont want to f my bod up so that is why I am to the pt of asking for advice. There is just so much stuff out there. Every time I read something it is a totally diff opinion or suggestion from cycling to pct to every aspect of it. This forum looks great like a lot of really knowledgeable people with real experience and up to date advice. Can you just help me out and tell me what is wrong with my PCT and how long I should cycle? Maybe what you think of this cycle etc. I have read everything from short to long cycle to even a hrt doc that said dont ever go off! I have read that aromasin is good for cycle and post cycle. I have read temox with clomid, and dont mix clomid with temox as it has this and that effect and clomid is total shit and etc etc. I did research but it is really hard because it is all over the board. I am just asking for some basic practical advice here. I dont want to run massive doses of anything like most do. I am trying to be conservative. I was planning on starting really low with tren like no more than 75-100/wk and see how I feel. Can you give me some practical advice cause there is no doc out there i can go to for it.
Thanks!
Man I have been reading and reading til I am blue in the face and I got a lot of other shit I should be doing but I dont want to f my bod up so that is why I am to the pt of asking for advice. There is just so much stuff out there. Every time I read something it is a totally diff opinion or suggestion from cycling to pct to every aspect of it. This forum looks great like a lot of really knowledgeable people with real experience and up to date advice. Can you just help me out and tell me what is wrong with my PCT and how long I should cycle? Maybe what you think of this cycle etc. I have read everything from short to long cycle to even a hrt doc that said dont ever go off! I have read that aromasin is good for cycle and post cycle. I have read temox with clomid, and dont mix clomid with temox as it has this and that effect and clomid is total shit and etc etc. I did research but it is really hard because it is all over the board. I am just asking for some basic practical advice here. I dont want to run massive doses of anything like most do. I am trying to be conservative. I was planning on starting really low with tren like no more than 75-100/wk and see how I feel. Can you give me some practical advice cause there is no doc out there i can go to for it.
Thanks!
Why dont you try test decca cycle like test e or c at say 500-600 and deca at 400 for 12 weeks with clomid and nolva for pct in my opinion i would not run the tren but its up to you you could also add a oral as a kick start if you want like dbol for the first 4 weeks at like 30mg a day i think if you have your training and diet in check a cycle like this will get you good gains
and orals I hesitate because I am on a high dose of cholesterol med
well I did test and deca last cycle and I really didnt feel a lot of push from the deca but I dint do that big a dose of either. Why do you think 5 mos is too long? I felt like I was just getting going then I had to wind down on a three month cycle. Is it too hard on your bod to go 5 mos? I was not going to do tren with the deca but switch to tren for last half of cycle and do a low dose to see if tren gave me a real boost in workouts. ALso add some var at end. Also have you ever heard of aromasin for pct? I have read some places where it was recommended as it is an estrogen blocker but does this make sence to you?
thanks
Bro, most ppl here run shorter 10-14 week cycles enless you are running Hormone Replacement Cycle or HRT which is a constant low dose compound to get older ppl back up to par since we slowly lose natural test after 18 yrs old. Ever seen the comercals for "low T"? Im pretty sure 2 19 nore compounds such as tren and deca are not good together and you will be asking for sides. I asked tread to shed some light on the 2 19 nors together, so we will see what he says. Tren isnt for newbs either, so stay away from it for a long time possibly forever. The tried and trued PCT is clomid 100/100/50/50 and Nolva 40/40/20/20 14 days after last test pinn and stop the deca 2 weeks shorter than the test. Just stick with the test and deca and do it right this time, youll see better results doing a proper cycle. Maybe do test e @ 600mgs and deca @ 400mgs pined m/th 14 weeks and remember to run deca till week 12. Maybe run prop as a kick start.
and thanks for asking around and for your comments it really is all the hope I have of figuring out what will ultimately be right for me. I need input from experienced people.
what was tht last part "Maybe do test e @ 600mgs and deca @ 400mgs pined m/th 14 weeks"
I will consider a shorter cycle. Is it recommended because going too long really can mess up your system and make coming off really hard? Also it is hard to know what to think about trying something heavy duty like tren because one place i read wow what a great idea and they will be talking about a way higher dose then I would ever try out and then others like yourself say stay away. I want to feel at least one cycle that really gives me some gains in muscle. I am lean so I never seem to bloat or get fat. After my first cycle I did nolva and clomid ptc and I really crashed hard emotionally but not physically. I was insanely depressed for a couple of weeks. I stayed more or less the same wt. however. I also got much leaner during the cycle and stayed that way after. I got to my ideal body wt. I never fluctuate much in wt no matter what I do and also I dont tend to bulk up on steroids like some do. Now I am feeling like I want to go a step further and try tren and get some real gains out of the next cycle. I guess it doesnt make sence to use the similar compounds and I read that too and that is why I thought deca first half then finish with tren and anavar but I have no clue having never done tren nor anavar. Would it make sence to stop deca and go to tren midway? Is tren really a bad idea and if so why do so many guys rave about it?
I forgot to mention, time on cycle + PCT = your time off before starting you next cycle and yes a long cycle will mess up your system and possibly stop your natural test making abilities. On cycle your balls stop making test bc your body sences you have way more than enough test. Thats why your balls shrink on cycle. The "Maybe do test e @ 600mgs and deca @ 400mgs pined m/th 14 weeks" and the "stop deca 2 weeks shorter than test" and " run clomid 100/100/50/50 and nolva 40/40/20/20 14 days after last test pin" is me giving you a proper cycle. Trust me on the tren, it was never intended for humans, it was designed for use on animals before being sent to the slaughter house to get them as lean and big as possible at ALL COSTS. It is very harsh and has the most sides of any compound. You say you don't bulk up like others tend to. Have you made sure you are taking in enough calories? Steroids will not do much to make you bigger if your diet sucks, your routine sucks (over training), and if you don't get enough sleep such as 8-9 hrs every night. Calories for the most part will make you grow. Maybe try a mass gainer with your test/deca cycle too. Im not sure about runnig a cycle half deca then switch to tren. Ppl "rave" about tren because it is very strong but again also has the most sides and is the most harsh on your body. Do you really want to take the chance especially when you are not sure how to run a proper cycle??? Ive seen a lot of ppl say they wish they have never ran tren and it was a big mistake. In my opinion, stay away from tren for at least 10 cycles. In the mean time, do research on tren, then make a responsible decision. My 2cents
What is a mass gainer? Is this a supplement? I tried some of that wt gain product years ago and it did nothing but I used to eat a pint of haggendaz in one sittig and feel nothing from that. I think I do overtrain because I am pretty hyper and with the roids I cant help it. I feel like I can go for hrs and feel fine the next day so I do. I keep hearing this is a mistake but still has not sunk in. I do try to eat right and a lot when on cycle. I dont get enough sleep but it is impossible around here. Is tren so dangerous on a really low dose? Is it a bad idea at any speed? I am also getting that your body has to break into the harder stuff and higher doses. You need experience to know how you will take it. I just was going to start a really low dose of it and see if it was awesome as it sounds.
thanks for your comments I really appreciate it!
A mass gainer is a protien mix that is specificly high in calories. Overtraining is a bodybuilders nightmare. If you don't split up the muscle groups by having a good routine and have no plan before entering the gym then you will overtrain. If you don't have 2 days off from the gym each week, then you are overtraining. If you are in the gym more than 1 hr, then you are overtraining. You break muscels down in the gym and when they repair is when they grow so that they can acomplish the task at hand the next time, this is your muscels adapting. Newbs think you grow in the gym but you don't, you will get a temporary muscle muscle pump while in the gym. Whatever specific muscle group you are training on a specific day, you should feel a strong pump in that particular muscle group only. Sounds like you need a good routine, fix your diet, and get 8-9 hrs of sleep before you start thinking about adding more compounds especially tren. Trust me, it took me a long time to figure out what I was doing wrong when I first started working out.
I have a hard time with this because I feel good and I want to do way more than one hr. Plus the gym is a long drive from my house so I want to make it worth while! Maybe I can add more aerobics or swimming etc. I like to swim. For a while there I was doing a whole bod workout then rest two days then do it again. It was not working because my arms would get tired etc while working other muscle grps. I have been doing upper bod one day aerobics the next then lower bod the next lately. I dont feel like I am wearing myself out but everthing I read says dont train this hard. Maybe I need to up the wt to what I can barely squeeze out in 6-8 reps and only work one muscle grp per visit but try to get more burn out of it. It is hard for me to know how to isolate muscle grps. I am going to get prof help with this.
thanks