posted Thu, 10/04/2012 - 04:48
2272
2nd cycle - test p only - need advice
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Hey guys, I am planning for my 2nd cycle and want to run a short one of test p only, 150mg eod.
Stats:
6'2
200lbs
36 yrs old
First cycle was 400mg of test c per week for 10 weeks and then finished with 2 weeks of test p eod at 150mg. Followed by pct. Time off equal to length of cycle + pct = start date of the end of November.
Questions:
1. How long should I run this cycle (was thinking somewhere between 6-8 weeks - would prefer 6 but not sure if this is too short)?
2. Pct suggestions? Can I get away with nolvadex only or should I add clomid? I recovered fine from 1st cycle with nolvadex only and kept 90% of my gains. How long should pct go for a 6-8 week cycle?
Thank u in advance!
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Man, you guys are phenomenal! Thanks for all of the advice!
Lucky you... you got ALL the big guns on your thread today lol...lol
Have a good run let us know how it turns out ok bro
tread-mLove you kept most of your gains because that means you realize diet is how to get and keep gains. I don't mind the prop for 6 or 8 but your goals would need to be specific and personally I throw some var or tbol or something in on it being a very short run...I would have some long ester test on hand just in case in week one you see the prop is goling to just kick your arse, at l?east you can jump on into a test cycle. you have ran prop as your closer before so I suspect you did fine with it. You will likely feel like a plin cushion after a bit but thats how you get to where you feel nothing anymore such as in my case. You sucked it up and took care of business. The bright side is in an ed or eod situation you will obtain a lot of experience and prime those muscles for pinning and oil. I really would throw in a mild oral on this if going so short. Primo oral, tbol and var are all very mild on the liver by comparison of many and liver enzyme change shows to begin around week 4 but at a low dose of say 50 ed split on var for example you could roll that the whole 6 weeks without issue taking your liver supps at all times anyway IMO. You will roll your AI full ride here and I would say about 6.25 eod aromasin unless you know you need more/less from your previous experience. Very important with prop to have estro stable as bacne is highly likely and can get horrible if too many things are out of balance. If the AI is in place and you feel estro is in a good place from the signs and bacne is still coming on strong your 150 eod shots to 75-100 ed to find near perfection in free test blood plasma levels and very often that fixes all if the AI is being used properly. Yes to the clomid in pct.
cdaddy7With Z's bloodwork back our PCT is g2g....consider this layout and i like Detroitnates cycle plan....
Aromasin 12.5mg EOD continuing the two weeks between last test shot and PCT
Week 1 PCT Aromasin 12.5mg EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 2 PCT Aromasin 12.5mg EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 3 PCT Aromasin 6.25mg EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 4 PCT Aromasin 6.25mg EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
You may consider running 6.25mg EOD on Weeks 1-4 if you feel 12.5mg is too strong.
Thanks guys! what is the current consensus on incorporating proviron into pct?
If ya roll the short ester cycle.....at least pm tread or vike to get help finding no pip prop and delt pin help. No pip prop will surely make ya spoiled.
Proviron is a steroid bro
Look, I know your excited and like most guys you will gravitate towards the answers you want to hear. I strongly disagree with these guys. They are excited to be here and their info is spot on but they are taking very little consideration in who they are doling info out to..
This is your second cycle so you still haven't gotten pinning technique down, its more than jab and push. There is site rotation to think about, do you even know what these sites are and/or attempted pinning them. It also takes time to train your sites especially if you plan on abusing them (like you will on a short cycle) Then there is PIP. Prop is notorious for PIP and believe me if you don't know what to expect it can effect your training as well as your life. You hit your quad with some nasty prop and you will be hating life! Trust me! In the end everyone does what they want but this way you won't be 4wks into it saying WTF! You are officially informed...
tread-mI wrote mine I think up there as you wrote yours..lol. I'm of a split mind on this. I agree entirely with your thoughts but then there is another part of me that thinks "walk through the darkness" and get it behind you. As I've told you I think and you are likely the same way, I don't feel anything, can't tell you from day to day where I p
Pinned yesterday and have to sit and think which way I was facing etc to refresh what I hit the day before. I guess that came from walking through some pain and misery and I can't helpp but wonder would early on ed or eod get you to where I am much quicker than I got here dragging out the pain and misery for yrs. Lol. I had never done ed shots for yrs and never hit prop that I remember, mostly all long esters aside of sust which I did use a lot when it was the 3 ester blend. I agree with you here but still won't necessarily disencourage it in a case as his where he has actually ran prop. So I'm half with you half not I guess. Mildly undecided
Thank u very much for the info. I do have experience with pinning eod as my last cycle I finished w/ 2 wks of test p. granted this was only 2 weeks as opposed to 6-8, but again I managed well. I have 4 sites that I used during my 1st cycle and feel comfortable that rotating between these should get me thru (Glutes and quads). I have experience with prop and its pip. My thing is I want to go for a shorter cycle as I prefer this to waiting the 1st 4-6 weeks for the test to build into my system.
Take hollywoods advice bro.. he is spot on and his words are from self experience!... if you dont want to wait for the test to kick as you say why dont you think about doing a frontload of the long ester first so your system is flooded with hormone... or against my better judgement do an oral kicker d/bol or t/bol ??? ED pinning is not for the faint hearted bro and like H says if you have some fire pip prop life is going to be a real bitch for a month.
tread-mYou need to hit delts too. I promise you they will be your new fav! 1st 2 hits , makem delts and fall in love. Btw, not that the science is there but I put on serious delt size with a cycle pinning just delts. I know the argument and science disagree with what I experienced it but you'll have to tell my cantelope delts that and somehow convince them...what eva's! Lol
X2... mine are like footballs through pinning twice pr day lately on pre/comp prep.... totally painless delt shots just place the pin on the skin and push.... i have to look and check its in its totally painless in side lateral head.
tread-mLool. I know, I feel bad hearing about all this pip these ppoor bastards have but hey, we walked through the deep water too brother! Lol
I switched to 25 x 1 for delts but the naught nurse pokes me so its easy. For self injects the 5/8 might be easier?
Yep sounds good bro.. i use 25s 1.25in for everything i leave about 5ml of pin showing even in pecs, i find the deeper the better especially in this condition i am now i dont want any oil resovoir lumps showing thats another reason i pin twice a day pre/comp no more than 1ml in any one shot to keep the muscles shaped properly without any lumps and bumps... thats your PRO TIP for today lmao!
Definitly will remember that advice! High five!
You really need to read bro! Hollywood is correct. Ive been running multipins eod for 12Weeks and it fkn sucks! Im more advanced and running 6 point injections. So i'm guaranteeing you the 4 is NOT enough and you're in for a short cycle and eyeopener.
tread-mIs that eye opener a bad thing in the long run? That it the question I grapple with, maybe not.
That's the trial by fire that is only appreciated post cycle LOL!
tread-mLmao..that a fact brutha H! Its like how I learned to swim. Was a little bitty thing and my older cousin picked me up and through my ass in the deep end. My dad always said I could swim like a fish being a little tike and swimming all around the lake. I'd swim out and once I got way out he would whistle me to come back. Kinda like now, if he were here he would whistle and say "thats enough oil son, got damn!" Looool
If he adds delts....the right sized pins and no pip prop....it won't be bad. My second run was Ed Winny/test e using only 4 point. I was so chewed up. Wrong Ga pins and no delts. So, no it won't be bad eye opener. Just learning very fast
I think u would be better off with something like this for a 2nd cycle
Week 1-4 Test P @100mg/EOD
Week 1-12 Test E @500mg/wk split
Week 12-14 Test P @100mg/EOD
Arimidex .25mg every 3 days starting no later than week 3
Start PCT 3 days after last Test P shot
Clomid daily 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex daily 40/40/20/20
x2!
IMO hold off on short cycle until you get a little more experience more with PIP, pinning technique as well as site rotation and training your sites
X2.
Get more used to pinning before you're ed or eod. Takes a whileto get used to feeling like a pin cushion.
Answers:
1) IMO a run of 8 weeks will be perfect for a short ester. Ideally you would want to pin ED IMO, but EOD will suffice.
2) I always follow the Nolva + Clomid protocol (40/40/20/20 + 100/100/50/50 respectively). However, for my current cycle (http://www.eroids.com/cycle_logs/ps-cycle-adventure) i have adopted GS, Cdaddy7 and Zewis protocol, which is:
G&C’s Ultimate PCT:
Aromasin 12.5mg Daily continuing the two weeks between last test shot and PCT
Week 1 PCT 12.5mg Daily/Nolva 40 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 2 PCT 12.5mg Daily/Nolva 40 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 3 PCT 6.25mg Daily/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 4 PCT 6.25mg Daily/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Zewi’s Ultimate Tweak PCT:
Aromasin 12.5mg EOD continuing the two weeks between last test shot and PCT
Week 1 PCT 12.5mg EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 2 PCT 12.5mg EOD/Nolva 20 Daily/Clomid 100 Daily
Week 3 PCT 6.25mg EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
Week 4 PCT 6.25mg EOD/Nolva 10 Daily/Clomid 50 Daily
You may consider running 6.25mg EOD on Weeks 1-4 if you feel 12.5mg is too strong.
Zewi posted updates on his experiences of this PCT protocol and it works...it works well!
(http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/gcz%E2%80%99s.....)
zewi---- 6 weeks is not to short however, IMO 8 is better--150mg EOD is good. (8 weeks would be better)
----Yes you need Clomid--Clomiphene works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.
----PCT is always the same its always 4 weeks.--it makes for a faster recover.
X2!!! Clomid is a must have in your PCT