cycle and pct advice please
I am currently finishing my 4th week of a test c 500mg per week 12 weeks cycle. This is my first cycle and i am thrilled with the results so far (up 12 lbs). i had some nipple swelling and sensitivity that started up about a week ago so i have been taking 20mg per day of nolva to treat. when i realized this sensitivity, i went ahead and ordered some anastrozole to use during cycle instead of the nolva. i plan on running the nolva thru today and tomorrow to make sure the gyno symptoms have completely cleared and then i will replace the nolva with .25 mg anastrozole eod (will increase/decrease if necessary). i have also started 500iu of hcg this passed week to run thru cycle to keep testicular atrophy in check. my research and concern now is for ensuring a good pct (preferably keeping meds to the essential minimums). i plan on starting my pct 2 weeks after last test c injection. now my questions:
1) when do i stop running the anastrozole? last injection day, 1 wk before pct??
2) when do i stop running the hcg? last injection day, 1 wk befor pct??
3) i plan on running nolva only for my pct (open to listening to advice to add clomid if necessary). what dosing schedule should i use for the nolva? was leaning towards 60mg day 1, 40 mg day 2-11, 20mg day 12-21
4) what other supplements should i include (and what dosage) during pct? creatine, vit c, etc??
stats:
6'3
192lbs
35 yrs old
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@tread-m and FCVtec,
thanks for the input guys. i am posting my diet now. please review. thank you in advance.
tread-mFCV pretty well hooked you up NO CLOMID ON CYCLE. Adex or aromasin on cycle eod at half tab is fine , however, virtually everyone is going to have sore nips on first test cycle, does not mean you are gyno prone. I can have sore nips on rare occassion still and have never had gyno even in running some very big stacks. To take the AI to stop the soreness or drop water is fine but it is kind of nice to know if you are prone to gyno so I always think one should push it a bit off and on to get a feel for your own bodies responses. Thats just my opinion but for me I ran some cycles early on with very sore nips and no AI to see if there was change or lumps simply for my own peace of mind in running even bigger and harsher cycles. Now knowing I will not get gyno under any circumstance is a plus to me in my own mind if nothing else. So here is "my personal suggestion on "gyno scare". If you had a tight chest through your youth, never had chest fat and especially chest fat around the nipple and you have never had a chest fat issue since, then I think one pushes it a bit allowing the nips to be sore for some time to learn your body as it relates to gyno. I had one individual way back come back to me and say I took your advice and got gyno! So I said "have you ever had any chest fat or had a hard chest all your life"? He said "very little" chest fat when I was a kid. I said then you didn't take my advice at all, you took my advice that applied to someone I described it to apply to and applied it to someone I said it did not apply to. You pretended to be someone else and you are not someone else you are you! Lol my point is, gyno is something half of the teenage population currently has as a result of poor diet and sedentary lifestyle with video games so if you were to walk in a PE locker room today you would see a huge percentage of the youth boys with puffy nipples and fat around the chest area due to lifestyle. This is in puberty when conversion is occuring and they have actually grown some female brest tissue. That tissue will normally be fine for many years until their natural test depreciates at which time there will be more estrogen in competition and a higher degree of sex hormone binding globulan robbing test and the female brest tissue will begin to grow into "man boobs" as you often see on the beach with 40+ yr olds that have a depletion in naty test. So thats a long story I give on rare occassion but again, it is good to know your body and your velnerabilities and why those vulnerabilities are present in the first place, point being, learn your body. Ok so IMo opinion your pct is clomid and nolva for best and quikest possible recovery to good natty so you can retain your hard work. This clomid 100/100/50/50 and nolva 40/40/20/20. Hcg is fine and its still a huge debate and thats good, my advice on it is usually twice per week if you wish to use it @ 250 per and twice per wek in the final two weeks of cycle at 500 per. As you leave cycle begin to lift heavy in the gym with less reps and get out quicker so we don't burn up all of our hard work while the body is shut down. Eat big and maybe even bigger through pct nice and lean but heavy on meat and in fact, always do that, you can't keep weight with a diet that is different than the one you gained it with....period. you can check natty levels through bloods 8 weeks after last pin and should be fully recovered by then. I know you "think" you have diet figured out and may have, but I would say do heavy researcbh there and I would ven do a forum post with your diet so we can critique it for you and make sure you have the right diet for your goal. Diet is the whole damn deal in building and if 90% of your work is not there then you fail over and over until you get it right. I put a little time into this for you because you are someone actually researching and working and seem willing to listen. Use the help and get this diet post up to make sure you get this right brother.
Clomid made life very easy for me..
I dont like hcg... Its $90 for 6500iu here in australia, But the doc makes me do it lol.
there is another drug you can use while on cycle instead of clomid called naltrexone.. but youl have to read up and see if you like it.
Fair enough.. I cant remember where I read the HCG (low dose) stuff.
You owe it to yourself to read up on other ways of using HCG, I never said Im an expert of it... but low dose twice per week would raise test levels high enough to cause estro related sides.. so if you were taking 500mg of test per week and didnt have any estro sides, adding hcg as you suggested could then warrant the need for arimidex (or nolva). But read up on the dose needed to actually tell the balls and HTPA to start working, 500iu wont cut it. I also like to limit exposure to HCG because it is a female hormone... (I know nolva and clomid are related to this.. synthetic estrogen ect).
So many people have knocked me for suggesting clomid from day one? Its a far safer and cheaper way to prevent your balls from going to sleep in the first place then using HCG.. PCT is made much easier, and because of his age (35) I thought he'd want a painless PCT?
No-one knows how badly shut down he is at week 4, only a blood test would show us, But i bet he'd rather keep his balls a decent size while on cycle?
Im not "some kid" either mate... Im your age only bigger (no offence).
I learnt the hard way about failed PCT and all the bad stuff and try to pass on what Ive learnt, But I get flamed coz I dont regurgitate the same crap people have read on forums for years. If you do think its unsafe ect.. have a mod delete it, but I do think there is some merit to what Ive suggested.
OK...
HCG, works great as single big dose, taken randomly. Taking more than once every 7 days can cause gonads to stop responding to LH ect..
Ive read the article on 500iu being the max dose, at that dose it can cause an increase in testosterone by 200-300%, but it doesnt send enough of a signal to the nads to start producing test. Over stimulation from HCG occurs from constant low dose injections.
How come when people go to their endo after another failed PCT they start them on the doses I suggested?
Clomid EOD while on cycle:
Unless youv been living under a rock, clomid takin at 50mg EOD from day 1 of a suppressive cycle (tren, deca) can prevent testicular atrophy greatly.
Deca killed me the first time I used it (had a long time recovering), Endo suggested clomid EOD on next cycle, Balls stayed the same size (on 1 gram of deca) and PCT was pretty easy.
Considering how cheap, effective it is, why wouldnt you use it?
Its not as nasty or harsh as youve made it out to be...
HardLuck13He's not even running a high enough dose or long enough a cycle to warrant the HCG protocol you suggest. Clomid for a test only cycle? @ 500mg a wk? A waste imo.
Fuck off moron, and when have I ever told noobs to pm me?
Never inject 5000iu of HCG? 550iu isnt enough to do shit. you obviously have no fucking clue what your on about.
Have someone ban me then you fucking tool...
Yah, little lite, hence the juice. Couldn't add weight. Been working out for yrs and eating well.
What dosing schedule on the clomid? 50 mg daily for 3 weeks? Thanks
Thanks. This is the first time I am hearing to use clomid while on cycle. Also, I would prefer to keep my testes by dosing hcg during cycle rather than the post long term shutdown jump start.
1) Stop it 1 week after last injection.
2) Save the HCG for PCT, Start using 50mg of Clomid EOD now and till the end of your PCT.
3) PCT:
-Nolva (you nailed it!, but run it for an extra week at 20mg)
-Clomid 50mg EOD (start now though)
-HCG 5000iu injected on day 1 of PCT and once every 7 days (4 injections).
4) Keep Protein high (500-600g daily), Train 1 day on/2 days off, dont try to increase weights during this period, no alcohol, 8hrs+ sleep per night.
Ahem.. (datman clears his throat). This is the 2nd b.s. post I have seen from this guy in the las 24 hours.. you obviously do know what you are talking about... Misinformed garbage... Really starting to piss me off..
Im not posting anymore brother... I get the msg
Just gona read and keep my ideas to myself
Sorry bro, I was a little worked up earlier.. no hard feelings.. (bro hug) nohomo :-)
haha all good mate..
The majority rules though...
Ive pissed off too many people lately so its best I take the hint
HardLuck13Clomid serves no purpose to run on cycle. It essentially will do absolutely nothing, a waste of time, money and exposing your body to chemicals for no reason what so ever.
HCG is way too high I've done minimal upkeep on cycle with HCG and it worked. 250ius 2x wk is perfect and almost not even neccessary with the dose of test he is running.