250mg and 500mg Test bloods results discrepancy question
First pinning cycle. Started with 250mg test and 50mg var, did bloods in the 5th week, 36 hours after pin. Then switched to 500mg, again did bloods 36h after pin. Did TT and E2 test. No FT unfortunately.
First bloods, 250mg test cyp e3.5d (the fancy blue UGL), 50mg var ed, no Ai:
TT: 28.5 ug/L (1.42 - 9.26)
E2: 32 ng/L (11 - 44)
Second bloods, 500mg test cyp (the red and black double P UGL), e3.5, 12.5 aromasin eod:
TT: 34.6 ug/L (1.42 - 9.26)
E2: 24 ng/L (11 - 44)
So I am wondering, why the second bloods show a small increase in serum T levels relative to the dosage that was pinned? Is the second stuff underdosed or have I desensitised to test in 7 the weeks of active cycle, or am I just metabolising the second test differently due to a different carrier oil or something? Or does a linear increase in exogenous test not correspond with a linear increase in blood serum levels? Also maybe var lowered TT by inhibiting SHBG, but as aromasin also inhibits it, there shouldn't be such a big difference...?
And what should I do; increase T dosage to something like 750 or just be satisfied with the current state of affairs? I am in a cut, so tbh I probably don't need more than this, but seeing as I don't have any sides, E2 is controlled nicely, I wouldn't mind seeing how a "true" dose of 500 looks like. As this is my first T cycle I would like to experiment and learn as much as possible. Also some recomp effects, rather then just BF% loss would be welcomed.
Appreciate any input! Tnx
Edit:
Just went to see my logs:
4th of May was first pin.
30th May was first blood test.
4th of June started upping the dose.
12th June was first 250mg pin.
27th June (today) was second blood test.
I did 5 full 250mg pins before second test and before that went from 125 towards 250.
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1) not enough time at the higher dosage to tell shit.
2) natural production is currently in a down trend.
Any graphs I hand drew would confuse you.
From experience, how dose serum T increase with dosage applied. It can't be linear right? Or is it linear to a certain degree and then starts to exponentially lower...?
I also suggest next time pick a dose and stick with it for the while cycle...I can see starting low on the first pin if your worried about pip but the idea is to keep blood plasma levels as stable as possible through the whole cycle.. and try to keep your AI as low as possible so you doing tank your e2.. you can see with no AI you were still in range at the low dose so in my opinion EOD of aromasin might be too much.. again being your first cycle u made a few errors it happens but next time around you will know.. that's where the week 5 blood comes in.. it helps you dial in your ai.. but since you changed your dose it's kinda guesswork at this point
Yeah, I just wanted to see how I react to 250mg's... Mostly bc of acne! I have acne on my back, cycle or no cycle. So was really worried about it. Needles to say, my acne went haywire, got lost on my shoulder. I started taking low dose isotretionin, but it started to help around week 5. That's when I decided to take more test. Besides fear of acne, I also wanted to see blood levels of test on different dosages. I practically live at the lab now, they all now me by name already lol
But I do completely understand your point. Tnx for the advice!
No problem bro.. also edit out lab names before you get negged again
Damn, you think that's a problem? I know we are not supposed to write source reviews in this section of the forum, but this is not quite a source review... Anyway, how about now, better?
Better..I would still get the initials out too. . no source or labs in the forum.. anyways your out the negative
Well at least something is getting elevated
Don't think people minded the inclusion of names that much though...
Ok, changed it lol
Just looking out bro.. read the rules it covers all that stuff..
Appreciate it, tnx
Here's what I think.. it takes like4 weeks for cyp to get into you're system so if you went up from250 to 500 you would need to wait 4 more weeks for the levels to raise and be accurate on your blood test.. if you pinned500 for only1 week it's no where beat enough time for the cyp to release.. how long did u wait before blood was taken the second time
Heaze2016I believe he took blood at 5 weeks then again at 7 weeks, so only a 2 week wait.
Ya that's no where near long enough for cyp.. the first pin of the new dose was barely released
Damn you guys replied fast. I was replying to Heaze2016 in the meanwhile: "At the end of May (4th week of cycle) I started gradually increasing T Towards 500. With the first full pin of 250mg being 15 days ago. So yeah, partly you are right, but I did slowly up the T dosage in the two weeks before that. The SteroidGraph (steroidcalc.com) shows my blood T serum levels are currently stable, at their max. So this is why I decided to also test TT. But I do realise another week or two would be ideal. I just wanted to check my E2 and decided to check TT on the fly..."
Just went to see my logs:
4th of May was first pin.
30th May was first blood test.
4th of June started upping the dose
12th June was first 250mg pin
27th June (today) was second blood test.
I did 5 full 250mg pins and before that went from 125 towards 250. As I said above, steroidcalc shows stable bloods... What do you guys think? Wait 2 weeks and do bloods again?
I guarantee in2 more weeks your levels will def be higher.. that's probably what's going on.. also my last comment kinda explains some stuff too bro.. your AI dose is probably off right now too.. Pull blood again and you'll know for next time
Ok mate. So you are suggesting to a) do bloods again in 2 weeks and b) keep aromasin at the same dosage and adjust according to bloods, right? Tnx
That's what I would do but honestly for me i run12.5 on my pin days so twice a week and I'm good.. Everyone is different so if u feel good at that dose and wanna keep it there that's ok to.. just remember low e slows gains also..I know a lot of guys that don't even run an AI till they dose test on the higher end.. I'm not suggesting that but like said it's different for everyone.. I'd stay with everything where it's at let it stabilize and do blood.. then your gonna know for sure
Ok. tnx!
Yeah, I've read that lots of ppl take 25mg ed or eod for 500mg test. So I thought that since I didn't need it on 250mg, that I apparently don't convert to E2 that much and will probably need less than that. Seeing as my e2 is right about perfect atm, if serum T levels do actually get higher, e2 can also only get higher, so no fear of crashing it. I suppose that crashing e2 with only 12.5mg sin eod is hard either way
What are your thoughts on steroidcalc.com app? If blood levels are shown to be stable there you think it's not accurate enough?
That will give you an idea but bloods is the only way to know for sure.. there's a lot of variables involved. . blood is always your best bet period.. it's a good tool though I use it to get an idea but the accuracy of bloods can't be beaten
Yeah offcourse. It's good thing I got a deal with the lab, did a project for them and they are paying me with tests. Or maybe I am still doing work for them by donating blood haha
Heaze2016Alot of guys use that,so I would say it's gtg.
Ok tnx. Well if it's gtg then my blood levels were stable at the second test and then this is it :( Anyway, a friend that is on the same gear at 250mg, will do a test on friday, so we'll have another reference then.
Heaze20161 last bit of advice, it looks like heavymetalmonster was super nice and gave you all your Karma back. So be wise with it and don't go back into the negative lol
Agreed lol
Haha! This karma thing...was not really trying to be careful with it. I did one "provocative" theoretical thread and got lot's of negative feedback from it. I thought as much when I opened it, but didn't know that I wouldn't get a constructive debate going at all... Well, live and learn.
I'll send some beer - or some creatine might be better
- to him!
Heaze2016T levels should of went up alot more than that. Possibly underdosed, blood levels are suppose to rise over weeks till they stabalize. Also you only waited 2 weeks between testing that also could be the issue I would of waited longer between testing.
Hm actually not quite. At the end of May (4th week of cycle) I started gradually increasing T Towards 500. With the first full pin of 250mg being 15 days ago. So yeah, partly you are right, but I did slowly up the T dosage in the two weeks before that. The SteroidGraph (steroidcalc.com) shows my blood T serum levels are currently stable, at their max. So this is why I decided to also test TT. But I do realise another week or two would be ideal. I just wanted to check my E2 and decided to check TT on the fly...
Agreed.. without knowing how long between the higher dose and the blood test there's no way to know for sure..I honestly don't think he waited long enough between the raise and the blood test and since cyp is pretty much the longest ester to be released as far as test goes that's probably what the issue is