posted Sun, 11/27/2016 - 02:55
1688
Toremifene, clomid, nolva
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Hi there,
I'm reading some stuff on pct guide,I read that during PCT the libido goes down, and someone advice to use toremifene instead of nolvadex for this reason, could you give me your advice and maybe feedback on this thing?
I would no lose my libido during pct
I see some new protocol like
toremifene and nolva:
toremifene 100/100/50/50
nolvadex 40/40/40/40
everyone that used this said that the libido was very high
or is better the classic protocol clomid and nolva?
thanks a lot for your help
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glad to see you made the smart choice and ended your cycle. I assume you got that pct protocol from mwagbers posts
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/toremifene-p...
I have tried various combinations with SERMs. the one I had the most successful with was nolva and toremifene, but keep in mind I am an outlier usually when it comes to effects from pharmaceuticals.
the protocol that I used successfully was nolva 40/40/20/20 and toremifene 100/100/50/50. I felt the best, recovered the quickest and maintained a good sex drive. I wouldn't say torem really increases libido but for some reason it did off set nolva destroying it.
just keep in mind you need to get all pharma pct meds. DO NOT GET REASEARCH CHEMICAL PRODUCTS. toremifene is not easy to find but some of the sources here have it.
as far as your other question about an AI, you need to get blood work done to determine how high your estrogen is. this with dictate of you need an AI and if so how much and for how long.
edit; I would like to add that clomid gives a huge increase in libido so it's trial and error. many people would say run clomid with either nolva or toremifene. nolva and toremifene are so what similiar. I can't tell you what will work the best for you but once you start a protocol for your pct, stick with those medication unless you get some nasty side effects. of you run into more issues just make a new post and ask.
hi Shiva4 thanks for your reply,
I always accept the good advice from others, and first thank you for it. I have also made this decision after some researches, and finally I understand how bad was my cycle. Yes I saw the mwagbers'posts and made me courious.
If can I ask your cycle before the stack toremifene and nolva was heavy ?
So you also used the stack clomid nolva? if so did you have low libido on this stack?
I set the pct for 6 weeks (due to my low testosterone) like this:
clomind 100/100/50/50/50/50
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20
but my concern is libido, if I can recovery my Htpa without have a crash of my libido would be great, so I was reading about toremifene, by the way I only use pharma grade pharmaceuticals.
For the AI if in future I'll cycle again, I should do blood work around the 4th week to determine if I need it or earlier ?
are you saying that clomid Increases the libido? if so why so many people get a crash of libido during pct? If nolvadex causes it why people do not use clomid + toremifene?
Can I run all 3 serms ? clomid toremifene and nolvadex and made a mix ?
I know when I start the pct protocol I must run it unless i get sides, but i would like to chose the best option, the quicker way to recover and avoid the crash of libido.
For now thank you very much, you're helping me a lot in this big trouble.
could you please remind me exactly what you took, doses and for how long? I though you were on for about 5 weeks and weren't running any 19-nors, right?
The cycle that I used torem/nolva for was a standard 500 mg of test per week with an anavar finisher. I almost always have low libido during pct with the exception of nolva/torem.
My theory why low libido occurs during pct is based on your estrogen receptors are being blocked by the medications. This tricks your body into thinking it needs to crank out more testosterone. The downfall to this situation is estrogen cannot attach, this leads to symptoms of low estrogen, low libido being one of those side effects.
I would actually recommend for you to follow the standard protocol of nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 100/100/50/50. the reason being, this is the protocol that works for the largest amount of people. the only way to figure out how you are going to respond to these drugs and protocols is to run them and see how your body responds to them.
I would definitely not run all 3 of these drugs. You will increase the chance of side effects and these drugs are not 100% safe. You will be placing more stress on your body and when you get side effects there will be no way to know which one is causing it.
I like that you are putting a lot of thought into your choices here but I think you are over thinking it. Just run the standard 4 week protocol of nolva/clomid.
In regards to blood work, run it 4 or 5 weeks into cycle (assuming you are running long esters cyp/enanth.) You could also run it right before starting PCT to if you are concerned about your estrogen levels.
Weeks 1-4
Testoviron 250mg/week
Bolde 350mg/week
Primo 400mg/week
Proviron 50mg/die
Weeks 5-8
Testoviron 500mg week
Boldenone 350mg/week
Primobolan 500mg/week
Oxandrolone 40mg/die
Proviron 50mg/die
That is the cycle and yes, i stopped at week 5, currently doing 2 more weeks of Testoviron at 500mg
To cover 4 weeks to let equipose leave my body. Then 2 weeks off and then pct, and i'll take blood work Right before PCT. But should I run Hcg during those 2 weeks off? Well i would avoid low libido... what can i do? Use the torem and Nolva?
Thanks for your precious help
the chances of running into low libido exist no matter what combo you try. again, I would suggest clomid/nolva simply because that is what works best for most people.
if you have HCG to run for those days between your last injection of test e and starting your pct meds, go for it. just make sure you're not running hcg while running SERMs, it will be counter productive.
Ok shiva thanks for the advice! I'm already running Hcg 250iu shot twice per week since last thursday should i drop it and use it just those two weeks before PCT?
To be honest i would understand when introduce it in a cycle some says during like me and some says just the two weeks before PCT blasting 1500 iu three time per week.
there are different opinions on each, I would say during Cycle but no more than 250 units twice per week on Cycle. you want to maintain leydig sensitivity to the hcg.
when running it the weeks before pct, I would suggest 500 units per day for 7-10 days. the reason you don't want to run it at 1500 units is due to the fact that you will desensitized your leydig cells quickly. hcg also had an innate ability to convert to estrogen quickly, especially at high doses.
Now i'm at 250iu monday thursday until my last pin then i thought to do 500 eod or is to low at this dose?
500 ed is not too much for leydig aswell ?