posted Tue, 01/24/2017 - 12:25
5915
+ 2 PCT libido death, Bloodwork high prolactin
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Hi there,
i've just finished my pct and since week 3 the libido is dead, as someone has suggested to me i've done the blood work and here it is the results:
http://www.chriswolf.altervista.org/bloodwork.jpeg
the E2 is ok, but the prolactin is very high, and i know that it could cause libido loss.
Someone told me to use Dostinex (cabergoline) 0.5mg twice a week for 3 week and to keep the nolva 40mg ED (for the low testosterone) without clomid for 3 week aswell.
This could help me to fix my problem ?
thanks a lot !
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Fair play for getting the bloods done.
If libido is gone consider getting some proviron and dosing at at least 100mg, but ideally 150 pd.
If your test is low, then you haven't recovered, prior to ending the PCT.
I would strongly recommend running a full PCT again. Min 4 weeks and possibly more depending on recovery
I would suggest:
To prep for PCT run HCG at 1K e3d, then leave a gap of 1 week to restart the PCT
For PCT run:
Caber: .25mg eod for 2 weeks
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Proviron: 150mg per day (depending on availability or affordability, you could stage this at the beginning, mid or last couple of weeks of PCT
Good luck!
150mg Proviron in PCT. It's steroid and it shuts you down. There is some debate about this al lower doses but at 50mg per day members here have run bloods to show suppression. It should not be used as part of a PCT let alone at 150mg per day!
Agree
Agree. To many people have shown with bloodwork on here that it is suppressive. Only highly advanced users should think about it with PCT with which they can make an educated decision based off of bloodwork. The risk just isn't worth it for most people.
I would love understand how you or they came to the conclusion that proviron specifically caused shutdown
Can you share any links? I ask as bloods in themselves don't identify the cause, they highlight the body's state, so I would be very keen to understand how the conclusion was reached
I haven't saved any links about it, but this isn't the first time this topic has come up. To specifically address this issue many members did an experiment a while back and found that after incorporating provi in their PCT, they were still suppressed after PCT. Had to run another PCT afterwards without to reboot HPTA.
That sounds like my kind of experiment
Ill do a search
I am tempted to do my own with just proviron over 4 weeks to see then another with proviron plus standard pct
It was a couple of years back but there were too many coming back suppressed for it just to be coincidence.
I had a look at a couple of posts, saw a comment or 2 from you in there so am sure I've seen at least 1 or 2 you're referring to.
I would still say that there is not an awful lot of evidence of any particular compound causing suppression
I definitely think a single compound experiment is the way to go
test cycle, then pct inc proviron, bloods before, at end of cycle and at end of PCT would be really interesting
Yeap I've read all the posts. On a related point I did my own experiment with Ostarine ar 10mg ED in PCT and my PCT failed. Had to re run it. So anyone who tells me Ostarine isn't suppressive and safe to use in PCT is deluding themselves.
Ah come on! Of course you can use it for PCT.
Proviron shutdown is minimal if at all and usually only in massive doses, and for the majority of people. 150mg is not likely to shut him down at all
But yes you could argue it is possible, of course, and only bloods on any individual will tell their personal truth
In my own personal experience proviron combined with traditional PCT gives me the absolute best recovery from heavy cycles. at I have used it at 100mg and150mg pd over 4 week stints, causing better reco very than normal, without proviron shutdown and sent libido through the roof, most notable from week 3ish of a 4 week pct
I strongly recommend it.
I'm happy this has worked for you but for many on this forum who have the bloods to prove it has done the opposite. Your suggestion to highly recommend it is a bit gung ho in my view. We practice safety first here.
Well right back at you I guess Dacky... I would suggest that denouncing something without evidence is gung ho! I would also suggest that there is no way to confirm proviron's efficacy or otherwise, without tests yielding direct evidence or real research on proviron alone on an individual or groups and its effects on them, and then also a follow up research on its effects as a part of a combined PCT plan which may differ (potentially) when acting with other compounds.Bloods after a PCT cannot identify a compound as a negative. All I mean by that, is there are so many subjective factors that can effect any individuals recovery, meds used, cycle duration, age now versus last year and on and on...
Look dude, all I can say is that when deciding on whether to use it or not, I did a lot of research (I had access to most online journals at the time) and any of the research I did (before deciding to try it with pct) in the journals showed that there was no negative effects in trials on test levels/suppression, although if i remember correctly there was one study where a small % of people with above normal elevated levels were dropped but not below either normal or thereabouts.
That was enough for me to trial it, and although yes this is my own personal anecdote (so not real research/evidence), I will not go back, unless my body/bloods tell me otherwise.
Safety first.... absolutely and always!
Now all of that said, they are my thoughts and experiences, which I recognise may differ from yours or others. I respect that.
Mate I have all the evidence I need. Countless blood tests showing continued suppression post PCT when including provi and this was on much lower doses than you're suggesting. Maybe it's ok for some but there were just too many here where this wasn't ok for anyone to be recommending it. We are all about the real world experiences of members here and from these we develop certain highly recommended basic protocols. Not running provi as part of a PCT is one of them. The OP is new to the site and new to AAS and for this reason suggesting this to him and others (particularly the more novice users here) I didn't feel was appropriate. No disrespect but I'm just doing my job as an experienced member here looking out for the community.
Look that's totally fair enough and no disrespect taken at all
I maintain my position on Provi, because of my own experiences with it, and my own blood results, if id kept a copy id post but all it would show is relatively normal results
I definitely think an experiment is due though, but hey, even if i proved a point, or yourself proved a point it could never necessarily be a universal truth
Blood tests or it didn't happen.
It didn't happen
It was all a dream
I'm glad you could admit that. Don't you feel better?
Not really to be honest!
I feel a little disappointed.... sorta like the feeling when Bobby Ewing came back to Dallas.... that kind of disappointed
Dallas... Falcon Crest is where it was at! ;-)
Now you're talking! Best thing pre-Baywatch days!!
;-P
.
You can run a low dose caber at say 0.25mg E3D for 2/3 weeks then come off and see how you're doing and of course do your post PCT bloodwork to revisit if your prolactin numbers increase again. This is the interesting part.....why is your prolactin high? You were not running a 19Nor. If it recurs you may need to see an endo to get this figured out. Good luck and +2 for doing the bloodwork.
Hi Dacky, sorry for asking again but i didn't notice this message from my phone.
Now, I've finished the classic pct, now i'll go with 0.25mg E3D of dostinex for 3 weeks, and after 6-8 weeks I'll do again blood work (unless i experiencing more sides, in this case i'll do blood earlier).
Now the point is should I keep nolvadex in those 3 weeks? because my testo is still low, someone advise me with 40mg of nolva for 3 weeks along dostinex, what do you think about this ?
I don't know why I have high prolactin, but before the cycle my prolactin was: 14.4 ng/ml on 3.5 - 19.4
Fella take the caber for 2 weeks and then stop. If you want run clomid 50/50 and Nolva 20/20 for these two weeks and then retest 8 weeks later. Your test is a bit low and to be honest I would expect your LH and FSH numbers to be a bit higher so this would be appropriate. I will say this. I still do not think your issues is prolactin related. It is very marginally raised to be honest. If you had a prolactinoma for example it would be in the 200's. Are you taking any other medication as some meds (e.g. Antipsychotics) raise prolactin? I'm still convinced your issue is just symptomatic of PCT and totally normal and all will return to normal over the next few months.
Ok i'll go for 2 weeks and i'll keep clomid and Nolva aswell. Now i dont take meds apart from my pct, i take just supplements but i dont think they can interfere with Prolactin...
Why My testo, FSH and lh level are still low? It could happen or the pct has failed?
I have a question: if under pct my level are low like now, after few months they could go even lower ?
I wouldn't say it's failed. I mean all your numbers are in the normal range. You really need a baseline to compare it to this could be completely normal for you. Let me guess you didn't get pre cycle bloods done? I would have expected higher LH and FSH numbers after just having finished PCT. Are you sure you're clomid and Nolva are legit Pharma? As to your question about going lower. Impossible to say. Only time will tell. Normally for me when I have tested a week after PCT I have high LH and FSH numbers but lowish (for me) Test and estro but still in the normal range. As time goes on my test and estro numbers revert to baseline and my LH and FSH numbers drop to the lower end of the normal range. When I have gotten sperm count done everything has been fine. Go the extra two weeks, make sure you're using legit Pharma clomid and Nolva as well as the caber. Then get yourself some DAA Calcium Kelate (it's must be this form of DAA don't bother with normal DAA as it won't work) for the month after you've finished the SARMS/Caber. 5g per day of this. Keep your fats high and focus on strength training - low rep heavy work long rest periods and getting plenty of sleep. Try and chill and relax and forget about your hormone levels for a while. Enjoy life. Use some ciallis if you need to. Then after 8 weeks go and get another blood test and report back here.
Ok, all the numbers are in the normal range, I hope that they don't crash down. Yes you got it, I didn't get pre cycle bloods done (stupid me). Yes my clomid and nolvadex are bought directly from the pharmacy with prescription. What about sperm count? is it mandatory? I didn't do that.. And during the cycle and first week of pct I've noticed that the sperm was less than before the cycle, is it normal?
Ok, I'm starting this 2 extra weeks, and thanks for the advice about daa-cc I'll find it. About the Fats in my diet I keep them at 0.8gr per kg of bodyweight, are they enough ? I'm already in low reps and heavy work so i'll keep in this way. Ok after 8 weeks i'll check again and I'll keep you posted.
Thanks a lot for your patience and help, really!
No sperm counts are not mandatory but if you're interested in having kids it's a good idea to know how your fertility is tracking when using aas. That's why I do them once a year or so. And as you don't have a baseline there is really nothing to panick about as for all you know this is normal for you. Stick to the plan. Finish out the two weeks. Wait another 8 and test again. Fats at that level seem fine. Low rep heavy work is perfect. No more than 45 mins and get out of the gym. Sleep, rest and generally relax. Eat clean and be happy :-)
Thanks a lot for your support! I'll keep you posted ! Thanks again dacky!
NotNatural23If I read it right cause that isn't language are normal, in all, that was tested except prolactin?
NotNatural23wow that autocorrect messed up my comment. Meant your language is not my first but if I read your blood values right everything is within normal range except on most are on the lower end. Estrogen looks good. Just high prolactin and cortisol is getting close to being high.
Testo is low Right, should i keep nolva for 3 extra weeks? How can i control the Cortisol ?
NotNatural23if I read it right it is on the lower end but still within normal range. I prefer to be on the higher end of normal it is where I feel the best.
E2 17 pg/ml 11 -44
LH 4.7 mUI/ml 1.1 -8.8
FSH 3.6 mUI/ml 0.9 -12.0
Prolactin 25.3 ng/ml 3.5-19.4
Testosterone 12.0 nmol/L 4.9 - 32.0
FREE testo 22.1 pg/ml 15-50
Dht 420 pg/ml 300 -1200
Cortisol 18.1 mcg/dl 3.7 19.4
Estradiol, LH, FSH, Prolactin, test, free test, Dht, cortisol
Those value has been tested in the last week of pct
NotNatural23Someone negged me for suggesting you could have high prolactin and need dopamine agonist. well dam I was right get bloods done but he said no dont get bloods till 8weeks after pct. Well my profession didn't take 6 years of med school for me to learn nothing. anyways bro glad u got the answer to, your problem.
Prami cyber just research what would be best for, you. and karma points doesnt always mean people on here are smart or know, what the hell they are talking about. imagine if u listened to him u would have 8wweeks of hell. smart and glad u got bloods.
Hahah, 6 years of med school my ass. I call bullshit on that all day long.
If you had six years of med school, that would also mean that you had four years of undergrad on top of that.
I hate to be the douche that calls you out, but your writing skills are horrendous and not that of someone with ten years of schooling behind them.
I get that it's the Internet and we can be anyone that we want to be, but bro.... pick a story that you can at least bullshit half way.
At any rate, I recognize your horrendous writing style as that of a previously banned member, so to that bro I'll say wassup bro!
All my love, no homo
Ed
PS
I didn't neg you, but probably will if you keep telling people that you have been through med school.
NotNatural23bro never been banned . Meant 6 years of school in medical field. In last year of becoming a nurse practitioner.. So apologize Just ws saying someone negged because I suggested it might be somethingng else other then being given shut down. It wasn't what he thought it was and took offense. had a friend have Similar issues. Also when is getting bloods a bad thing. thatso is the reason I was upset. just seems the guy was 100% convinced he was shut down and that was it no other answer to his problems.
and yes I dont take my time to write the best and I will admit writing isn't my strong suit but I am not who you think I am. Never been anyone else on here.
Lol. Are you sure that you are ready to double down on the nurse practitioner story? I might call you out...
NotNatural23Yes.
Mate with all due respect you got negged (and not by me) on the OP's other forum not for your advise on bloodwork and prolactin but on recommending the OP takes Proviron on PCT which has been shown empirically by members running bloodwork on this site to suppress and prolong recovery. As such we never recommend Proviron in PCT. but here is a +2 for being a smartie pants and right about the prolactin :-)
NotNatural23proviron is tricky for pct seen fertility docs give it to help men have kids so it is one of those pct that is I guess you could say is 50/50 some like it some dont. it is wondering for free test and libido. didon't mean to come off like that but dam people on here are so quick to negotiate if they don't agree with what u say. So apologize if I offended anyone.
There are alot of pct products that combine Nolva clOmid and proviron out there. I have seen alot of people always run proviron and dopamine on there pct but that doesn't mean that will work for everyone. Everyone could react and respond to other things different. like Chris didn't run 19 Nors before cycle and had normal prolactin levels but after cycle it is higher. I don't know everything and have an open mind about seeing things both ways but what is good for you might not be good for Jim or Joe. I wish it was that easy as that but unfortunately the human body is very different from one person to another.
NotNatural23gave u plus one for at least knowing. Guess I should have worded my comment better last time also.
Hi dacky, what do you think about caber and Nolva in this case?
I answered above about te DA but here goes again. Caber at 0.25mg e3d for 2/3 weeks then stop and recheck levels after 8 weeks. Would just finish out your PCT as planned. Don't think it's the Nolva causing your prolactin issues. Even if it is the caber will sort it and allow the Nolva to do its job. Now if your prolactin levels rise again and you're not on anything hint then it's time to see the endo as there could be a another cause for this.
Same problem a while back. I did 1 mg then .5 twice a week thereafter. Worked for me. Might want to grab some viagra or cialis.
Hi thanks for your reply, if you did dostinex 1mg week why you should use cialis?
Just in case.
But if i lower my prolactin the libido should come back, or am i wrong?
Caber will fix prolactin, Cialis will fix the boners, or lack of... In my experience a low dose of Cialis every 2 days during PCT helps keep things working to full potential until you have time to get your natty levels back up.