+ 2 toremifene citrate PCT and gyno reduction potentional
decided to do a little more reading and research into to torem, my new thoughts are whether or not torem would be effective in PCT as a potential gyno reduction protocol. because of the fsh and lh stimulation i dont think it would be ideal to run through or during a cycle for gyno issues, as to much stimulation in this area can have permanent consequences to test production. my reasoning or thought behind this is because of its primary use for women. because it blocks estrogens ability to effect tissue, or tissue aromatization. although it doesnt stop test from converting to estrogen, it will halt the effects, and reverse the estro related effects on tissue. i wonder at how effective it would be at reducing or reversing gyno? its primary use seems to point in the direction that it would make it effective for this purpose, but in my opinion only safely in PCT..
also during my reading i have noticed that those who have used torem as part of their PCT reported higher than normal testosterone and quicker recovery post PCT. i believe this is due to the LH and FSH stimualtion.
i think the potential for toremifene is possibly overlooked and needs some more investigation. i feel based on what i read that it has a great potential for positive uses in the aas community, more so than its used now...
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it can work well in an individualy designed pct in specific circumstances after various compounds as an alternative, if just standard cycle stick to nolva and clomid, as for gyno imo and attempts between a group of us, it has good affect with certain types and reduces lump size a little, there are better options and combinations imo..... good post bro..+1
i sent this info to sic in a pm, but if anyone else is interested...
this was as best i could remember without looking it up.
toremifene citrate half life is 5 days, its at full blood serum absorption and mean half life distribution is 4-6 hours after taking. meaning it peaks and than halves with in the biological system around 6 hours but takes 5 days to clear the system. so for 5 days its in the body.
I found it it said 5 days half life for totem is that's true
Sic, I believe this was a good bump of an older post. Im studying this subject harder than I am aa's and you helped me out. Thanks bro! +1
Thanks I've been trying to memorize the half life's just not sticking yet I use this notebook and write all the notes down. can get a little annoying at times but eventually I will get it glad that I could help
I can tell you torem was great I ran it my last pct after 12 weeks of test that and small dose of nolva and u can see by my blood test it worked like a charm! Did not use clomid.
nice!!! some good positive feed back on torem. how was your libido on the torem. ive noticed after i take it im ready to roll around the sheets with my lady
Yah man I was suprised how good I actually still felt through pct n I still had decent libido! I'm still wondering if I should run the same pct after cycle I'm on which was nolva torem or if I should do clomid torem.. never tried clomid tho
i think the best protocol is clomid aro and tore. i dont want to overstimulate, and the possibility of nolva having a nor19 rebound issue isnt something i want to play with. also with the LH and fsh stimulation these offer, i think this may be my every cycle pct protocol. i have kept all my gains accept dropped some strength which happens after every cycle for me. ive actually put more weight on since i started PCT, and when i get my torem in me and it kicks in, i get a little horny. i feel great and still motivated, best PCt ever for me
Yup! I agree man maybe ill do clomid this time around with it I know ill always stick with torem! U ever ran tbol? I'm runnin 100eod of prop right now wondering if I should start tbol or do it the last 6 weeks..
an anvar taper is the only oral ive ever done, my next cycle i will be doing a dbol and prop kicker with 12 weeks of test e
AnonAmen brother. I'm in complete agreement. Due to the reports of Nolvadex having adverse reactions to 19nor compounds it makes Tore the ideal replacement. Extra stimulation to go along Clomid. Using Aromasin in the pct would control the estrogen issues and throw a little hcg in the mix and u have a decent pct for 19nor cycles.
yep i would agree the most ideal PCT with torem after a 19nor would be
toremifene, clomid, and aromasin.
i found a few reports on this combo and it seems by all accounts to get you back to 100% really quick and those few also showed increased natural test levels after finishing PCT, although those results were within 2-4 weeks of finishing PCT, i wonder if they carried those increased test levels and for how long if at all after the PCT cleared the blood
AnonI've been considering this same thing. I was talking with an old friend who no longer is a part of this site. I brought up the idea of cruising on test prop for maybe 4-6 wks after a deca or Tren e run to give the body time to get rid of enough of the 19nor to allow for a normal length pct. Tho nandrolone will remain in the blood for extended periods of time the amount of concentration in the blood lessens with each passing week. It may remain present enough for detection but not necessarily enough for continued shutdown. So the idea of the prop cruise is to allow the body enough time to purge the 19nor and still have some test in the body to keep at least an artificial stimulus. Then hit the pct like we stated above.
He countered my idea with shutdown is shutdown. I agree with that statement to a degree. Shutdown from test isn't as suppressive as from a 19nor.
So the use caber on cycle and even during the cruise and pct is huge IMO. It will control all the extra prolactin and keep the Gyno and sexual sides at a minimum and may even hopefully non existent.
This was just a conversation we had and I haven't done much research after that point. I'd definitely like to see some labs using this technique. I unfortunately am a poor candidate since I'm a TRT guy.
what would be the benefits of a cruise vs. and extended pct? obviously it'd feel better lol but is that it? i guess im just kinda wonderng what the downside is to extended pct and if it'd be harsher on the hpta to cruise for those extra 6 weeks than to simply bite the bullet and run a longer pct
AnonThat's a totally acceptable alternative. I've know guys that have had to run back to back pct after a Deca run because the labs after their first pct showed they did not reboot. I had my boy add HCG into the mix and he ran a second pct and it worked like a charm.
I on the other hand don't think there is much a difference in shutdown from 16wks to 20wks. Both are a long time and at least this way u don't have to run a double pct. If you let the deca dissapate long enough from your system the reboot will be that much easier. Now I'm just essentially talking in theory since I have no labs to back this up.
i was going to try and cruise for at least 6-8 weeks because of the deca, but i have had such bad estro sides getting deeper into this cycle, i was getting hard to control. turns out my ai (liquid) was shotty at best, ive got it under control now but im not going to keep killing myself to fix the issue with the garbage i have on hand. so i called it and im now into PCT and doing pretty good. 2 weeks in and only down 6 pounds, actually feeling pretty good. morning wood like hell, and great libido. honestly best PCT ive ever had thus far.
im very intrigued by this concept and even tho i dont know much i think you two are really on to something ... typically when running deca you'd drop it a week before the test right? i know EQ is 2, so a week sounds right as the deconate ester has from my understandng a week-ish less of a half life than undeconate. so that being said, what would a cruising dosage look like if you were to do so? ive researched almost nothing on that sort of thing. so my question is what would a cycle with this incorporated into it look like?
1-13 test e say 500mgs
1-12 deca say 300mgs
14-20 test e say 200mgs???
3-16 or all the way thru cruise to 20 weeks? .5mg caber 2x week
then 4 week pct with torem, clomid, and aromasin
AnonIf it were me I'd use Test prop for the cruise to make the pct start 3days post last pin.
Test E1-14
Deca 1-12
Test Prop 15-18-20 this depends on you and how long u want to cruise.
Caber .25g wk3 through first two weeks of pct stay ahead of the prolactin
4wk pct tore clomid aro hcg caber for two weeks
nice, appreciate the reply homie. i was actually gonna ask you to take a peep at this and lemme know what you think, but you beat me to it. im assuming you recommend going with prop vs enanthate that way you can start pct 3 days after last pin at 18 or 20 weeks rather than 2 weeks later, which would essentially extend the cruise even further. what does a cruise dose of prop look like and are pins ED or EOD? and could you use test phenylprop to still roll with a short ester but cut down a lil bit on frequency of pinning?
sexymexy, pretty much answered everything i wouldve +1 for it, only thing i do on long ester is run the test 2 weeks longer than the deca typically.. sexy got it down though. and the test prop, depends most run it ED if its your first time you can run EOD.
AnonAre u using Tore right now?
toremifene, aromasin and clomid. i was going to try a triptorelin gnrh 100mcg shot to see how that would be as a PCT, but im not messing anymore with this cycle or PCT its been to rough all around for me, going with the tried and true method. im using peptide right now rather than pharma, I wish i had pharma, like i said i really can tell the quality isnt top shelf, but its working.
The propionate taper is absolutely effective in aiding recovery by allowing the other compounds to exit the body!
Plus 2
Welcome to level 2
AnonRight on Gator! I love Deca and honestly it was my first love before Tren. I've been really gettin the itch to go old school this next cycle and bust the deca out. For the younger guys running deca the right way will help them experience how amazing it can be. Using Tore as part of that PCT IMO is a must