posted Sat, 06/01/2013 - 19:43
2578
Requesting Guidance on PCT for Test E & Primo 14 Week Cycle
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Stats
Age - 29
Height - 5'-10"
BF - unknown, but on the low side.
Weight - 185lbs
Weights and cardio (running 2.5-5mi/day) six days/wk. Diet is excellent, but I'll need to eat much more on this cycle. Former serious marathoner/ultra runner. I was 128lbs when I started lifting. Yeah, you read that right - 128lbs (ultra runners get skinny). Been lifting steadily for the past 5 years. Have done (3) Test C & Deca cycles.
Goal
Run mild cycle with low sides. Keep post cycle crash as light as possible. After PCT, I'd like to have approximately 10lbs of keepable quality gains.
Proposed Cycle
Weeks 1-14 - Primo E 600/week Split into (3) 200mg doses throughout week
Weeks 1-14 - Test E 250/week Split into (2) 125mg doses throughout week
- Bookmark
- 0
- 0
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50 or 50/50/50/50 seen people still get good results and less emotional sides.
Aromasin 6.25-12.5 mg rite through pct ran untill last day of pct...do not use adex in pct it don't work well with nolva plus you will get a eastro rebound off adex leading to a good chance of post pct gyno unlike aromasin which kills off all eastro and will give you no eastro rebound coming off pct.
Hcg is up to you...
You could run it last 6 week of cycle untill you start pct then drop it but imo i would leav untill next cycle since its been so long since your last cycle.
Use alpha lipoic acid for your on cycle body detox to help clean out liver and kidneys and putvless strain on them during cycle studys back this stuff up unlike milk thistle.
Bp problems try taking a multi vitamin and minaral,drink loads of water,and take apple cider vinegar twice per day middday and 2-3 hours before bed to help lower bp.
You can also use d asparic acid during pct plus fenacreek,add in creatine also when you start pct,l glutamine for muscle breakdown to help keep gains,
hope this helps.
MakaveliCD7Excellent advice!! Spartacus!!! Aromasin yes!! The only suggestion I would make is bc of the Aromasin being used daily then drop the Nolvadex to 20/20/10/10....this PCT of Aromasin, Nolvadex, and Clomid is the way to go for retention...I used to have the exact stats on the success but they somewhere in the PCT forum....but the retention rate is real high with no libido loss and less depression and strength held well too +1
AnonI know you support a lower dose of Nolva but I have a different train if though on that dosage.
Though Nolvadex does have some properties that are anti estrogenic it merely blocks the hormone. It does not stop its production nor does it destroy it like Aromasin. So in my opinion it can be run right alongside Aromasin without doubling the effect of the AI.
What is lost in translation brother is the other main purpose of Nolvadex. Rebooting LH levels. As we all know LH is responsible for producing natty Testosterone. I'm not a big fan of lower Nolvadex doses. Especially if its partially responsible for rebooting my natty LH production.
Is it a huge deal? IMO it's not mission critical. But also IMO I would rather chance low estro than reduce a med that helps fire my natty LH up.
What's your thoughts?
MakaveliCD7No I really don't believe it would make any huge difference bc the only reason I set it lower was bc I found less depression but u are correct bc everyone is different and if u really want to get technical....Nolvadex also blocks estro at the breasts as well so in reality unless the person is sensitive to Nolvadex depression then u definitely can leave it at a full dose to ensure added gyno protection post cycle PCT....I'm open minded brother....I definitely agree with u explaining it like that bc ur right those estro levels will rebound for homeostasis no matter what so i think ur right on...great way to think out the box!!
AnonMy negro!
MakaveliCD7Always brotha!!!
You bros are like a couple of PCT magicians!
MakaveliCD7We definitely have worked together on many occasions and spent quality time researching and brainstorming....thank u my man for the props
Very thoughtful post. I will use this information. Thank you.
Ok check this out. Tons of bro science behind pct. best results are with
Aromasin- 6.25 or 12.5 ED or E3D
Clomid- 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex- 40/40/20/20
Extended cycles 16+ suggest hcg 500ius 2/week.
Thank you sir. I am a patron of the brosciences.
Considering you have Exemestane on hand, for methenolone enanthate and TE use Clomid 100/100/50/50 & Nolva 40/40/20/20. What PCT did you run on your other three cycles? Deca plus Nolva equals gynecomastia.
I was around 20 years old when I did those cycles, which was a decade ago. I didn't do any PCT whatsoever, because I was an idiot under the guidance of another idiot. I had an awful experience with post-cycle crash, which is why I'm sweating this PCT so much.
I'm just as worried about the sides of the PCT ancillaries as I am about the sides from the steroids.
What do you think about using Clomid & Nolva while on-cycle?
How would you suggest I use Arimidex?
Nolvadex can be used on cycle at around 10-20mg per day for signs and symptoms of elevated E2. your dose for Arimidex is okay, while on cycle, but not during PCT. The only other frequency would be to use Arimidex 0.25mg qod (every other day), while on cycle. Acne, water retention (ankles), and gynecomastia are signs and symptoms of elevated E2 levels. AI's and SERM's have different pharmacological actions that tell E2 what to do.
Guys, I've been getting so many mixed signals regarding PCT. The people who are lending their experience mean well, but it's impossible for me to decipher such wildly contrasting advice.
Clomid/Nolvadex/Arimidex - I've got people telling me to use these ancillaries on-cycle and for PCT, other people telling me to use them only on PCT. I've had people tell me to use Clomid on wks 16-20 @ 100/100/50/50, other people tell me to halve those doses. Same deal with Nolvadex and Arimidex doses. I've even had some guys tell me to eliminate these drugs altogether in favor of "natural" supplements, since Primobolan has it's own anti-estrogenic properties.
HCG - I've got guys telling me HCG is a waste. I'm also being told to use it in light doses regularly throughout my cycle, which I like the idea of, but when I research this method, I find that it may permanently fuck up my junk. Otherwise, I'm being told to blast it for a few weeks as the steroids wear off. I've also been told to use a supplement called HCGenerate in place of, and/or with HCG.
HGH - It should be noted that I'm using HGH @ 4iu Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri, Sat. Thurs and Sunday off.When I begin the cycle, I'll be at least a month into HGH dosing, and will use HGH for at least two months after my cycle. I plan to increase the HGH up to 8iu/day during PCT.
Here's the best I can come up with, taking all sources into account, but I cannot confidently say that I'm not completely fucking myself up with this PCT plan;
Proposed PCT
Weeks 16-20 - Clomid - 50/50/25/25
Weeks 16-20 - Nolvadex - 20/20/10/10
Weeks 1-20 - Arimidex 0.125mg every other day
HCG - Weeks 1-14 750iu/week split into (3) 250iu doses throughout the week. Weeks 15-16 1000iu/week split into (4) 250iu doses throughout the week.
I need your help guys. I just want to do this stuff right. I've read a book called "Anabolics" cover to cover. I've scoured the internet. I've become a member of many AAS forums (this being the best, in my opinion). We're talking dozens of hours of thought put into this. I think I've got a good cycle, but I can't seem to confidently pin-down what I'm supposed to do with PCT. Thanks in advance.
sigh i feel your confusion and frustration my man! lots of contradicting info everywhere on these forums and even in this very thread lol. some of what im seeing here is even what i consider to be misinformation, from one guy in particular that keeps posting.
lemme see if i cant help you get this sorted out in easy to understand, final terms ...
okay so arimidex is for ON CYCLE and not to be used in post cycle therapy. for pct switch over to aromasin (exemestane) and dose at 6.25mg ED.
assuming you'll be using the aromasin in pct, you wont need such a high dose of nolvadex in your system because theres less estro needing to be blocked! run the nolvadex at 20/20/10/10.
since you will also be using hcg on cycle (see below) and up to pct, your boys will be primed and ready to roll with this whole recovery thing which translates to not needing as much clomid to begin producing lh again imho. take it at 50/50/50/50. nolva and clomid are notorius for side effects, minimal dosing to achieve maximum results is the name of the game when it comes to avoiding this!
last but not least, hcg. you dont need to start at week 1, as you wont be completely shut down and beginning to atrophy yet. i would stick with what you copied and pasted. on cycle dose at 250iu every 4 days weeks 3-6, then again 10-13, and then up the dose for weeks 16-18 (pct starts 2 weeks after last enanthate shot) to 500iu e3d. make sure you leave 3 days for hcg to clear before beginning pct ancillaries!
i hope this helped my friend, if you have any more question regarding pct, find and friend request then pm sexymexy - hes the man when it comes to pct and knows his shit. kinda like his passion and area of expertise
best of everything to ya bro, enjoy your cycle and know you've gotten sound advice!
Excellent! Thanks for the clarification.
I like the idea of cycling HCG on and off, because I've that steady dosing HCG could permanently fuck me up. I do have one question, though;
I'm running primo and test for 14 weeks. You said that I should dose HCG during weeks 16-18, but that I should give HCG 3 days to clear my system before taking PCT ancillaries. This would mean that I would wait til week 18 plus three days to start taking Clomid, Aromasin, and Nolvadex. I thought that I should start taking those ancillaries at week 16, is this right?
you're right, i for some reason thought you were running for 16 weeks. so hcg scheduling would look more like weeks 3-6, again weeks 9-12, and then up the dose like we talked about to prime for pct weeks 14-16. waiting days after last hcg pin to start pct will put you at like 16 days past your last pin of primo, but thats fine because really waiting an extra 2 days to start pct isnt anything to write home or be worried about.
2 weeks is suggested because thats right about the half life of enanthate, and to avoid as much of a crash as we can, we aim for starting pct when test levels are at or around baseline (what they normally are naturally).
you should be ready to rock now my man. keep your diet on point, big but clean, and make sure you have everything you need on hand BEFORE you start. have fun and be safe brother
That's a plan! You've been tremendously helpful. Thanks so much.
This PCT will work. The Arimidex is a good minimal dose that will keep your E2 levels where they need to be. You won't need Exemestane, since you have Arimidex. The HCG is perfect, the doses are a little high, but, I dont think they are high enough to convert to E2, as well as the length of time. The Clomid and Nolvadex are on the low end, which is fine because you will be running the HCG during the length of the cycle. Just get pre-cycle/post-cycle labs and make sure you get a CBC/CMP.
Thank you for all your input. What do you think about the following excerpt regarding HCG?
"If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function. Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle. It has been speculated that the prolonged use of HCG could permanently, repress the body's own production of gonadotropins. This is why short cycles are the best way to go."
True. This looks familiar.
I copied and pasted it from a source's webpage.
It contradicts what's in my proposed plan. Which way would you go? How would you dose HCG?
no, adex is not for pct mate, its for on cyle as an ai, pct for this cycle is- clomid-100/50/50/50- nolva-40/40/20/20/20 hcg optional, and you start 2.5 weeks after last pin
Thats right....my bad...E2 levels fall as half-life diminishes. But, it is okay to drop to 50mg per day in the second week for Clomid? And, do an extra week with Nolva at 20mg?
yes the first week of clomid is to get it in your system quick! and the 5th week of nolva is to stop any rebound!!
Thank you revenge85....
I thank you for your input.
If you get some lab work, post it up here....keep coming back to eroids!!