HCG on cycle...too good to be true??
OK so I'm just getting back in the game, so to speak, after ten or so years and there seems to a whole lot more solid info about HCG on cycle than I can remember…Getting to the point…Based on new evidence (new to me at least) it seems low dose ~125-250iu ED will basically keep your endogenous testosterone production fully intact while on cycle. To me this sounds like the holy grail! No testicular atrophy means PCT should be far more effective, No loss of endogenous test should mean no libido, lethargy, or depression problems on cycle with non-test cycles and for test based and non-test based cycles this should mean a higher overall blood androgen content resulting in potentially lower injection/oral dosages for the same gains.
Now I haven’t tried this yet and if there is one thing I have learned in life it is that things tend to work much differently in practice than in theory, so does anyone have any hands on experience trying this?
What are the flaws in my hypothesis? What am I missing?
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What is the protocol for nolva or arimidex while in hcg? Use one? Use both? Use none? Dosage?
So for a 16 week cycle with say Test E and EQ with no oral(s), you'd start 250iu HCG E3D on week 4 and run through to the end at week 16. Then still have to do PCT correct?
You will get shut down, no doubt. But what the HCG does is prevent atrophy and enable quicker recovery like you mention. I wont try to get into the science of it but if you search Dr Swale PCT you can find some good info out there. From experience I can say that about 20 years ago when I first ran something there was no PCT protocol out there and I recall my nuts shrinking dramatically and taking about a month to come back. I am at week 10 and wrapping up currently and have ran 500iu HCG twice a week throughout and the results are amazing as far as preventing atrophy. Better living through chemistry!
You got that right about no 'PCT' 20 years ago. I don't remember the term at all. Back then it was only Nolvadex or Clomid if you had gyno. At least that's all I gathered at the time. Things are certainly much different today.
I used to think so too about shutting down but check out this article "http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/90/5/2595.full" The results seems to show quite clearly that the reason testicular atrophy does not occur (though they don't mention atrophy in the paper) is that the testicles never stop doing what they normally do, as evidenced by the linear relationship between higher HCG dosage and higher intertesticular testosterone levels as well as the higher serum testosterone levels. This of course doesn't mean your pituitary and hypothalamus are doing what they should but from what I've read these come back faster post cycle than the boys do.
Very interesting. So in essence you arent "shut down" like you would be without the HCG. The boys are at the ready because of the effect of the LH. However they wont actually be producing because T levels are over where they need to be.
No this is the best part they ARE still producing T! Based on the article I posted above they aren't just ready to work they have been on the J O B the whole time! And why not? The HCG mimics the signal normally given by LH to produce Testosterone. If you don't feel like actually reading just look at figure 2. Unless something else besides the boys are making Test they aren't shut down at all.
Went back and looked. Wow. I am always a skeptic though. The thing that stands out is that it was tested on subjects receiving only 200mg of test per week. So at the peak of say an 8 week period the most on the system at any time is 399mg. Just curoius if this would remain the same at say the standard 500mg per week. And what happens when other compounds are introduced like a deca?
I don't see why it would change except that the endogenous test would account for a lesser percentage of overall plasma levels. As for adding Deca or something else I don't see why it would make any difference (to the testes at least) unless the substance somehow blocked the HCG from binding but I have never heard of such a thing.
Test should be the base of every cycle period and hcg can destroy leydig cells in your nuts therefore making your body incapable of ever producing the natural testosterone it once did and your dosages are a little much uou have proposed 125 - 250 a day where i believe 250 twice a week would suffice
I agree that test should be the base of every cycle,but there are instances where for one reason or another it's just not practical I agree test makes for a way nicer and better cycle for alot of reasons though the reason this is true is because the body is designed to run with it not so much with other androgens even though they are structurally similar. I am very interested in your statement about leydig cell damage though, do you have a reference? I would very much like to read it if you do.
There is talk, research, where too much hcg for too long can temporarily deactivate leydig cells. The length and time is variable. I have seen anywhere from a couple of weeks to 10+ months. You can google it though, it is pretty common research imo.
Theres some good info on wikipedia i cant find he exact reference on the leydig cells
very interested in this as well bro !! Nice post