Estradiol, testosterone, strength and fat loss
Fellow warriors,
I'm new to this game. As I wrote yesterday, I am 22, 195cm, 115kg, 25% body fat, 1RM deadlift 230kg, squat 180kg, bench press 110kg. I checked my T and E levels after few days of non-training: my T was at around 1200 ng/ml, BUT my Estradiol was something like 72 units (42 is the upper limit for men). I suppose my natural T production is pretty high, but thanks to all the fat (I always had 25-35% BF), aromatase is doing its work and my E is fucked up.
Should I consider taking Letrozole or Arimidex, if so, how much and for how long? As you can see, my E levels are pretty, pretty high which makes my fat loss extraordinarily difficult (I plan to drop some 10-12kg over the course of the next 3-4 months, and preserve as much STRENGTH as possible). I heard about all the bloating associated with high E, and guys keeping it as low as possible during cutting. My T is good, I don't want to take any AAS and screw up my HPTA, but I think I could really use Letrozole or Arimidex, that would maybe even slightly increase my T as a consequence of less conversion to E.
One other thing I would like to ask is: do I do HIIT or long steady cardio if I want to preserve STRENGTH (I never do more than 5 reps, so I guess my endurance sucks), and do I stick to 3 full-body strength workouts or split them as bodybuilders do?
Thanks in advance. Peace!
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AnonYou have a 1200 test level. That's greater then 95% of men on the planet earth. I wouldn't touch a thing.
It wasn't a sensitive estradiol panel so it might not be as high as you think. This is the male test for estrogen.
Lose body fat and it will go down. But more importantly how do you feel? I have a 450 test level at 23 and I'm 10% body fat, I wish I had your levels.
losing body fat and lowering estrogen levels naturally come down to diet. Clean that up and both will drop. Props to you not taking AAS, as you see you don't need them with your levels.
I have a hard time believing estrogen is what's making you have a hard time losing body fat. If you aren't already, try counting your calories, weighing your food, and eating whole foods.
Maybe you should try upper rep range, hypertrophy is best achieves 8-12 reps. You can do any split you want, but I think you should add in both types of cardio. If you want to be anal about it you can just do long steady but I don't think it will make that big a difference.
I'd stick to body part workouts if your goal is purely LOOKS. Try hitting everything every 3-5 days, even twice per week if you've been training long enough.
I'd try to be in the gym 5-6 days a week I'd you're serious about losing some body fat. Maybe give it the whole year and you could probably get abs before the year is over if you're consistent if you're 25% now.
remember diet is #1
I don't think I would try and mess around with an AI. I would think that as you lose bodyfat hopefully you would be aromatizing less so it may take care of itself as you lose weight.
I am not a fan of full body workouts. check out some the body part splits that bodybuilders do and give that a shot. This is coming from a bodybuilder, if you goal is more crossfit orientated i am not sure what you should do for a workout.
Good luck on your weightloss journey.
My goal is to develop a strong and functional body, like olympic lifters, for example, on a much lower level, of course. I want to cut the fat and then stick to slow and steady lean muscle gain. You think L is so powerful it could lower my E from 72 units to under 12(lower safe limit for men). Not wishing to sound lame or cocky, but it seems like too much to me?
Once again, thank you man. You were the one to offer me an advice yesterdy as well.
I only used letro once and that was to crash my estro to see how it would dry me out. It crashed my estro in a heartbeat. I have never used it for controlling estro though. If you do go the ai route I would start out with a lower dose of whatever AI you choose and follow it up with bloodwork to confirm its effectiveness and to ensure you are not crashing your estro. Crashing your estro will halt growth and strength gains so you need to be real careful if you are going to be introducing an AI.
I see. What's your AI of preference, which dosage do you prefer, and have you ever used an AI only, or always stacked with test/orals/tren/whatever?
I prefer aromasin for its SHBG regulating properties. 12.5mg/D or 25mg EOD works for me while I am on a cycle. If I took it off cycle I am sure I would crash my estro. Arimidex works just fine for me also at .25mg E3D.
I may also stick with Aromasin instead of Letro, or Arimidex. Do AIs mess with your libido? I wouldn't want my gf to end up taking anti-depressants while her bf is popping anti-estrogens.
May I ask how old are you and what's your training history? I do assume you are a pro.
AI's can definitely mess with your libido. Crash your estro and you won't feel like having sex and if you do try all you will have is a squishy. It could definitely cause a strain in a relationship. Click on my avatar. Everything else is in my profile.
Fastest way to drop bodyfat is diet, you will lose strength but it wil be much easier for you to do cardio when your weight is down. I dont know your medical history but AI can mess with lipids and dry your joints so they are not without riskfactors. And wow your deadlift is very good for you being over 6 4.
Thanks! As I said, I'm new to the game, only did 6 months of lifting in the past year, and that's it - I am an aspiring mathematician actually (to make things more funny
). My long legs and arms (210cm wingspan) are not helping me lift, but seeing how quickly I add weights, I decided to really commit more and see where I end up, what my genetic potentials are. What's your take on my Estradiol levels? If they are SO high, I doubt 2.5mg of Letro EOD would lower them to undetectable levels, as a matter of fact, I think Letro would just keep them at around, say, 20 units (that would be a 70% reduction!).
Hell No! Don't play with such a powerful AI. It's not what you need.
Arimidex would be better than letro for naturally high estro, letro is overkill. Dropping residual aromotase is more important for longterm estrogen. Letro has its rebound effect when you come off. Formastane would be best bet for longterm estro. It drops residual estro by 8% while arimidex drops it by 2% letro by 1%.
Wow, it's a pleasure for me to speak with such an informed user. How can I give you some karma points?
I read on Google Scholar that 7.5mg-17.5mg of Letro weekly lowered men's E levels from 120 to 70 (see, still not to less than 50%), so I am currently at 70, it should approx. lower mine to just under 40 (42 being the upper safe limit for men).
You could try that protocol for a week and get a blood test and see where your estro is at. Just watch your joints when your powerlifting and the estro rebound effect.
How to counter estro rebound effect? By taking Nolva, or by gradually decreasing L?
There was another forum on here I copy and pasted a graph for different ai and effects. Here it is.
Relative Potency of Type 1 and Type 2 Aromatase Inhibitors
Product Aromatese inhibition% Residual aromatase %
Formestane (91.9) ( 8.1)
Aromasin ( 97.9) ( 2.1)
Cytadren ( 90.6 ) (9.4 )
Arimadex (96.7) ( 3.1)
Femara/Letro (98.7) ( 1.3)
Nice, thanks man. The thing is - I can buy 30x2.5mg of Letro at a pharmacy for 40€, and 30x1mg of Arimidex costs like 80-something €. I would prefer buying pharma grade shit than risk with some underground stuff.