posted Mon, 08/11/2014 - 12:41
2528
Caber, staple or on hand?
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So is caber a necessity or should it be kept on hand? Reason I ask is some recent research I found, some say if your estrogen is under control then there will not be any prolactin issues. Me personally, I always run caber .50mg e3d with all my 19-nor cycles. But I starting to think maybe I'm over doing it. Thoughts?
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sucks to see drama among the more reputable members :/ but i am also looking for an answer here. I have prami though and i am not sure if the sides are worth the maintenance dose.
For me as soon as I knew I was going to run a 19nor it was a staple. The low dose you take of caber to combat prolactin doesn't carry much risk for sides. I read the discussion below and all make good points and truth be told them guys are far more experienced than I, so take my words as just one mans experience. My 9 weeks of everyday pinning of a 19 were smooth as silk, hell, it was awesome. I continued with the caber for an additional week after and then stopped. All seems well.
We all try to cut a few corners when we first start with AAS, but you soon learn it is best to prepare for every potential situation. Have the caber, have the letro, have both aromasin and adex. That way when you need it it is ready to save the day..
I'll never understand why people will look for reasons to cut corners and sacrifice their health for it.
If no AI's and no dop-ag's is what Eroids is all about now with our new "gurus" then I'm fkn out.
AnonWell I'm not going to get that emotional over it homeskillet. Everyone is entitled to express their views. It just so happens that I don't agree with controlling prolactin indirectly. It's an ugly hormone men have zero need for. So I'm going to DIRECTLY combat that shit. It's just not worth the risk.
Plus the missing point in all of this is some estrogen is good for you. It helps build power and mass. You want some estrogen. If you keep your estrogen too low for prolactin control reasons you lose out on potential gains. So that's another reason to directly control Prolactin with Caber so you can let your estrogen build enough to see those power and size gains.
I'm getting burnt out on trying to reason with these kids. It's gone from preaching to the quire to wasting my breath. They don't care about their safety and want to just argue so fuck em. I say let em have it. I'm going back to the PM's and the groups.
AnonSorry guys but there is nothing good or needed or wanted about prolactin. Also Caber is one of the DA that have the least amount of sides. I don't understand how thats a negative? Please enlighten me?
Funny thing to see this at the top of the thread. I was pointed to this thread by Mr. Irongame, who is in the logs trying to tell people not to run an AI, but use proviron instead. Also trying to tell people that if they keep their estro in check (without an AI, of course), then they don't need to use a dop-ag because prolactin needs a high estro environment.
Naturally, i call bullshit and flag his post. Being a man, I tell him it was me that flagged it and why. Being the coward he is, he flags mine so no one can read it and denies ever saying the shit. And points me here with his exact words:
Back to the whole karma = experience level thing... Smh
Now, I can't help but lmfao at this bc this 25 yr old guru is the same guy who i was referring to in my thread about what happened to Eroids. I see him in the logs telling a guy on his first cycle of test 500 and AI only to run his second cycle with 760 test, prop, dbol, hcg, proviron, and no AI. When I ask why set the guy up for the potential for sides, gyno especially, he tells me the op will never learn his body if he uses an AI and estro is important for growth.
Shit like this is why people like Vike won't give advice in the public. Too many fucking kids running around thinking they no better and dragging the sheep with them.
How old are you? You do know we hAve a minimum age of 25 on this site and IMO idc if your 25 by age, mentally you're just not quite there yet. A mature adult would never straight up lie to make a point. I can't even stoop to your level man, I'm mature enogh not to. There was no post where I told anyone to not use both a da and a ai. I'm not guru, i learn every single day and I help when I can. And I can assure I am not the reason Viking doesn't give out advice. I didn't reach this level of karma from posting pictures, so that means I did it with helping in the forum and basically what your sayings is everyone else is to scared to call me out, because your the first. I'm not sure if you know much about Viking, noid, nitty , but if you think for one second these guys are scared to call me out your fuckkng crazy. I would have been told a long time ago before your ass showed up. Your right karma is meaningless. I'm gonna have to assume you didn't earn it in the fuckinf trenches spending hours everyday making sure people don't fuckinf kill themselves. Look man if you wanna run an ai on a simple test cycle go for It. I just checked out your pictures it's pretty obvious you know what your doing lol. Your 205lbs after how many years of lifting and god knows how many years of using steroids. I'm assuming by how you talk you've been using for a while. It's pretty fucking pathetic that that's have show for after how many chemicals you've put in your body. I actually just looked at that pick again. Your were on tren a, tren e, bold cyp test e and fucking npp and that's all you've been able to achiive. Is this some kind of fuckinf joke. My suggestion to you bro is to stop worrying so much about ais and start worrying about your diet. Idk if you've been told this before but you should have everything dialed in before you start using drugs, and it's totally obvious that you don't know the first thing about diet. I would suggest you get off gear and train naturally for a bit. You've been using fucking steroids for how long and I would guess you haven't even reached what you could have natrially. Of you were lean you would be 175lbs MAX. Fuck man I've been at this for a little over 3 was half natural and I've accomplished more. I was 220 love after 2 years and that was after only 1 cycle. And I started at 130lbs!! I'm don't even know what to say man what a fucking joke this is. I totally understand why you you always preach using an ai, and I agree man you need one. Of course your gonna have problems with estrogen when your bodyfats so high. Your bf is so high I bet your dick isn't even vascular.
What a fucking coward go fuck yourself and have a good day.
200?? Lmao! Whatever you say, cupcake.
Bro, I gotta tell ya, trying to tar and feather other members of this community in the town square is really in bad taste especially for the regulars. Is this the "old eroids" that you miss? If this kind of invidious invective is what you want to bring back, you can have it for sure.
What bothers me brother is that not so long ago, the community as a whole was about safety when it comes to the newbs. Now, it's more about let's see of we can cut corners and justify the side effects. I've helped countless guys pick up the pieces from that sort of thing. But if that's the norm here now, by all means. I will take my advice elsewhere and bow out.
There's been a lot of debate in the year I have been here about AI sides, about DA sides, about using provi as an estro control in a cycle. What sticks out in my mind are so many stories of people crashing their estro that it begins to make the dedicated use of an AI look like a menace.
But I don't think the focus on safety has changed.
I certainly don't think you need to bow out Doss, just leave the public executions to the MODs is all.
When you look at all the variables you can see why. Let's take serum testosterone levels. Lately, I've seen quite a few pop up where the gear is underdosed. One guy running 750 a week but scored 1700 ng/dl. That's pretty much equivalent to 250 mg a week instead of 750. If this particular guy used the AI approach needed for the dose he thought he was getting, then he would absolutely crash his e2.
Another example would be AI product quality. GSLeepy had an issue recently where he developed gyno on 250/wk of test using a peptide Co's AI. Got the gyno on asin, switched to letro from the same src and got no suppression.
That may be a bad example but the point I'm trying to make is that quality with UGLs and research co's can be rather sporadic. I've seen AI's that seem overdosed as well as underdosed and even bunk.
There's so many variables ranging from hormone and ai quality to individual genetics. Everyone's "sweet spot" is a little different and only blood work will determine where these variables fall.
The mods will be the first to tell you that they generally stay out of the logs and leave that sort of thing to the senior members, unless it's a dispute that can't be settled. Don't sweat it tho. I'll back off. I can see my methodologies don't jive, so I won't solicit.
I run an AI on every cycle and a DA on every 19-nor cycle from day 1 and that's how I've been doing it for 16 years. So, advice from me is always cookie-cutter. Everything your saying is true, but it's not possible to forecast bunk gear or bunk AIs when laying out a cycle. So you and I are in complete agreement.
On the other matter - irongame is a nice young smart man and has been really helpful to a lot of people and is a very prolific writer. I bet if you read more of his stuff you wouldn't have any problem with it at all. I think that you stumbled on a couple of things that you completely disagree with and have branded him a dunce and he's not. Really he's not. Anyways, I'm off to the gym. Check in later.
I completely agree with ifit but want to add what you mention about low estrogen and prolactin not effecting you only applies to prolactin induced gyno I believe, and does not apply to prolactin induced ED but not everyone gets that either. I tried flying without caber first time I used npp and started getting both sides so always go with ever since.
Personally, I wouldn't use caber unless you have an issue. Although tolerated well in most, why expose yourself to additional compounds and potential sides unless you need to.
AnonWhy expose yourself to limo dick or lactation? For that matter the same thought process would lead you to not using vitamins or taking minerals until you have an issue. Now I understand Caber isn't VitC or Iron. But both of those can cause side effects as well.
Also when you have an issue pop up technically you're already too late. Doesn't mean you can't fix it but it's what I like to call "Reactive not Proactive"
Because I've been doing this long enough to to know how my body reacts to various compounds. I've ran Tren at decent dosages and never had a problem with either so why should I take it just because it may or may not (in my case) happen. Everyone's physiology is different.
Stating that's the same thought process as not using vitamins or minerals is a stretch. Although it is estimated that 17% of the population would suffer from depression at some point in their lifetimes doesn't mean I am going to take an anti-depressant just in case.
AnonForgive me if I assumed this quote was you telling the guy there's no need to run Caber for these reasons. That's why I said what I said. There's a lot of talk of how prolactin is indirectly controlled by Estrogen. Which unless I see some direct studies which proves this to be the accepted science if don't agree with it being the accepted treatment for 19nors. I know for a fact what is directly responsible for Prolactin control. Caber. Caber is directly responsible for prolactin control. It just seems like a dangerous trend I see going around here where I see folks adopting a new norm of no direct prolactin control.
I understand what you're saying brother. I've seen my estrogen levels well in the hundreds bc I didn't use an AI. Lucky for me, my body handles it pretty well. I lost my dick but didn't get any gyno from it. Never have had a gyno issue but i count myself lucky. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I though bro. Hormonal sensitivity is 100% subjective to the individual. I've seen guys run daily doses of asin and still get gyno flares. Likewise, I've see guys run the same dose on a similar cycle and have to back off bc joints got achy. 100% subjective...
Last thing we want is for some younger guy to think "iFit ran tren without caber and had no issues, so i can too". Then get caught trying to play catch up bc they either have a hot chick laughing at their limp dick or their lactating titties.
Totally agree wouldn't want that to happen to anyone. Perhaps I'm just old school in my thinking or just plain old. Dammit!
I wasn't gonna say anything but since you bring it up:
You old basturd!
Good thing my estro is in check or I may have cried.
juiceboxx1212X2,x3,x4,x5 very well and simply said!!!
shoxingbiceps17I'm starting to feel that way too, so many compounds at this point, just trying to stick to the necessities.