posted Sat, 01/07/2017 - 02:58
2372
Ai on cycle
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I've been trying to research this and even through medical experiments there is conflicting results. Do you guys take ai on cycle and if so what do you see as the benefits?
I know the basic science behind it just wondering the real life effects.
I'm going to be taking another test e cycle at 300mg twice a week with a dbol starter. Was planning on using arimidex at 12.5mg eod then adjusting if needed throughout the course, then stopping 1 week after last jab and starting Clomid/nolva pct 2 weeks after last jab.
What do you guys think?
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I know for me I start feeling some of the high estro symptoms when my estrodial gets to much over 50 . It would be cool to hear from some of you guys in regards to when you start to get those high estro symptoms and decide its time for some ai
Labs are a must to see what you need to do, everyone reacts different to AAS. This will help you to determine if and when you need to use an AI and how much.
Yeah I agree with you there, I think the only way to make ai's benefit your cycle is to have regular labs throughout. As you said everyone reacts differently to substances and without labs ai's could be have big the opposite effect
no, all the mass monsters, pros, and everyone else i know who has a serious physique only uses an ai 1) if they feel gyno or get high bp from water retention 2) or contest prep. Estrogen is incredibly anabolic directly, you need it to grow, you need a decent amount to grow to your full potential on cycle. It has alot of indirect ways of being anabolic also. When im trying to add muscle i keep mine between 50-70, keeping it in normal range (20-30) will just limit your gains. Ai use has been blown way out of proportion over the last few years. idk about you but im gonna listen to the 275lb 30 year vets over the 180lb guys no matter how long they been cycling. theres a reason theyre 275. If these guys get away with no ai on 3gs of test, most people shouldnt need any on 500-750mgs of test. 50-75mgs of provi is my only ai most of the time. If im on dbol ill add a tiny bit of adex.
This has been the conclusion I keep Coming to, I'm not doubting if dosed perfectly with constants labs an ai will add to a cycle but my worry was dropping e levels too low.
As far as my cycles go I think I'm going to stick to keeping arimidex on hand for gyno and that's it.
definitely true about AIs being blown way out of proportion. I listened to to all the hype once and used an AI from the beginning once and is was the worst cycle ever. Joints were dried out, i felt like shit and my dick stopped working and that was on .5 adex eod on 600mg test. Needless to say no more AIs unless i need them.
Ya, if you see the forum posts from the early 2000s it was keep on hand use if needed, now it's always use an Ai no matter what. Never really learn you body that way. My first cycle was 500mgs of test, no ai, put on 28lbs kept 23. No gyno, no crazy bloat, acne etc I'm just not prone to estrogen sides nor Do I convert test to estro at a high rate. Provi has actually crashed my estrogen before, for some people it does nothing to control there e2. Then My next cycle I used an Ai kept my e2 in the mid 30s like people recommend and my gains were very slow until I finally realized it was my lack of estrogen and dropped the aromasin and my strength and size skyrocketed. And that was me taking a measly 6.25mgs ed-eod. We're all different and for some people on 500mgs of test their e2 ,can be 150+, while mine is around 40 with no estrogen control and they need big doses of adex to keep there e2 at like 50-60. For them I don't see an Ai hindering their gains, I don't believe it's the actual drug (adex, letro asin) that hinders gains, its people dropping their e2 to low to grow. To many people wanna keep their estro in normal range (11-39 I believe) most wanting to be in the 30s. But If we have our test levels 10-20 times normal and the goal is to build muscle estro need to be higher then normal also. But one of the most knowledgeable people I know gave me this protocol, 50mgs provi and 10-20mgs nolva ed. Nolva is by far the most effective drug at stopping gyno in its tracks. That's what I suggest to people who are gyno prone so they can reap the benefits of higher estrogen as nolva won't lower e2, the provi will a bit but with nolva there's no chance of getting gyno. And it increases HDL, can decrease igf-1 but so can adex. Anyways im just ranting I could go on forever about this subject. I ran cycles with no Ai and the same cycle keeping my e2 in normal range using an Ai and the gains were dramatically lower when keeping my e2 in normal range. I'm gaining very well now on 750mgs of test and 50mgs of provi and a tiny dose of adex .25mgs twice a week, I feel my estrogen is in a perfect place right now so I'm gonna pull bloods this week and see exactly where that is. It's crazy on this other forum Im a member of EVERYONE is on 25-50mgs of fucking aromasin a day, it blows my damn mind when I see these recommendations and cycle layouts. I'd need to be on 2000mgs of test ew to warrant 25mgs Ed let alone 50. Im all for dropping e2 when I'm cutting and. Start to get really lean and wanna reall dry out and bring out all the lines etc, but off-season I'm keeping it as high as I can without side effects.
Did labs 2 days ago. Will be interesting to see what my estro is now, im in about week 7 of deca test with dbol kicker to start. Now im at 500/600 deca test with taking only 20 mg nolva eod(5-7 day half life) and no gyno signs whatsoever. Still gaining, I feel great, dick still works and i sleep like fucking baby at night. got some proviron to add to my last few weeks at 50mgs. If my estro is above 70 I'll probably run 6.25 aromisin ed but even with that dose im worried about my previous low e expierance.
I'm with you there, I'm gunna stick to the same cycle and keep ai's on hand for gyno that's it.
I do think they'd benefit a cycle but only if you where getting labs throughout so you'd know wether to change dosing or not.
What I'd do is run your dose of test, no Ai and see where your estrogen is. The highest I let mine go is 60-70. If it's higher then that I use an Ai. If yours is not your good, if it is then add a dose of your preferred Ai, then you know for future cycles on this dose of test you either need X amount of adex or aromasin or nothing at all. I've done this in the past I know on 750mgs of test I can get away with no Ai and just 50 sometimes 75mgs of proviron and that keeps my e2 where I like it, and I know if I add dbol I need to add .25ngs of adex usually mwf. And it stays pretty consistent, I get bloods done every cycle and my e2 is always pretty damn close to the same spot.
I think you mean aromisin at 12.5 and if that is the case it should be taken everyday because of the low half life and if it is arimidex it can be eod. Aromisin should be fine at 12.5 ed with that dose. I am sensitive to AIs so i usually don't take them unless i need them but I always have enough on hand to finish my cycle. The other thing that you have to watch out for is low E levels which can be just as bad as high E and the only way to know for sure is to do labs. Good luck bro!
I did mean aromasin that was a typo from me lol, should have been aromasin at 12.5 ED
I'm pritty sure I'm going to repeat my last cycle(ai's on hand only) seeing as it served me well, if I do decide to throw ai's in I'll be getting labs
Decisions, decisions
Do we? I have never seen anyone run a proper cycle without using it. I don't believe for a minute there's any medical evidence showing that it would be healthy to not use it. Of course I'm sure there is that one person out there that after pulling blood doesn't need it, that's always possible. But that's not 99.9% of the population of people that run cycles. So yes, we use an ai on cycle.
Your 25 going on your second cycle? I personally don't believe that you need to run your test that high to make good gains. But that's another subject entirely.
I'm not going to be running second cycle yet, got a week left on pct then 5/6months till I start my next one.
I probably could have started the test a bit lower but didn't see why, it's not a massive dose and did me well so going to stick with it for now.
I agree with you that ai's benefit a cycle but only if you get labs throughout, I believe that the risks and potential to limit the gains are greater from taking an ai without labs than not having ai on cycle.
I know most people are going to say "everyone should be getting labs on cycle" but not all of us do, foolish or not it's true
There shouldn't be any conflicting medical results--if you take testosterone it will increase estrogen. Estro too high or too low is bad. An ai is used to lower the excess Estrogen from the exogenous test dose. There are many other problems with high estrogen besides gyno so just because one hasn't gotten gyno doesn't mean estrogen wasn't a problem. You will need bloodwork to confirm how much you need if you really want to dial it in. Also, maybe just a typo but your dosing level is for aromasin, not for Arimidex. You are only 25, dont rush into another cycle until you research a little more. The use of ai's on cycle is a pretty basic concept.
Start below, and then research
Aromatase Inhibitors (ai's): letro,arimidex, aromasin and learn the differences and dosages and why one should be used over the other.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/how-to-run-a-cycle
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/steroids-101-...