posted Sun, 01/26/2014 - 10:30
4451
Unrealistic Expectations with Test E
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I'm 8 weeks into a 500mg a week Test E cycle. My first Test E cycle was only 250mg a week. During the 3rd and 4th week of that cycle I noticed a huge jump in strength, aggression, and also some side effects (horrible ankle joint pain).
During this cycle I have felt no dramatic increases in strength, aggression, or any other positive attributes that correlate with a increase in training. I have not felt or seen any side effects. There was a a day or 2 with an increase in libido but that was it.
Any gains I've seen so far could easily be attributed to placebo effect and an increase in training frequency.
Are my expectations of my current cycle unrealistic or is it possible my gear is bad?
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If testosterone alone at 500mg/w created a body of the gods then nobody would be running tren, deca, dbol, anavar, masteron, equipoise, hgh, slin, or any other type of cell tech.
Was your source the same for both cycles?
No it wasn't. I should add that this test is based with EO and the 1st test was based with grapeseed. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with anything.
The test in the second cycle may be underdosed then?
I do believe I'm getting some Low E signs and symptoms. If I stop the AI altogether and wait until High E signs appear, what is the turn around time for estrogen to return to higher levels?
I'm looking for a plan on how to find that sweet spot for AI dosing. If levels return to normal is there a chance I could get E2 rebound? If so, is there a way to prevent that?
I went thru the same exact thing - first cycle was incredible in every aspect; strength, endurance, aggression, size of course, but the biggest difference between first and 2nd cycle was i didnt get that same FEELING of being on ... different labs i suspect was the biggest reason, i strongly suspect the quality of the gear my 2nd cycle wasnt nearly as high as the gear i used my first cycle, but now we'll never know for sure cuz i didnt get bloods drawn. Like its been suggested tho, without knowng where ur estro is at via bloodwork its all just a guessing game, plus you can see where ur test levels are at too which will obviously tell you right away if your gear is bunk or not.
I had the same thing with my last cycle. And like Viking and SDM are saying, it may very well be the AI's. I have no doubt the gear was good. First cycle I dosed aromasin EOD, the last one was ED at half dose, but I have a feeling I kept estro too low.
Next cycle I will be going the no AI route and see what happens. When I say no AI I mean, Test/Mast/Proviron. Looking at between March 15-and April 1st depending on what Post-PCT bloods show on 3/1.
Edit: I should add, for the first cycle my BF% was higher as well. I did not take that into account with my Aro dosage.
I think you touch on an important aspect with the body fat. For the most part, I could care less about an ai. I crash too easy, and that wastes gains. But I've noticed when my body fat gets above 12% I start to have negative estro sides. Thats the only time i feel an ai is really beneficial to me. Unless im using a strong aromatiser like dbol. Body fat really plays a big role in conversion.
Often DIET is the number #1 reason for poor gains.
Your cycle logs say 2000 cals/day. Training twice per day with that limited amount of good wouldn't yield results for many.
Bloodwork and a look at your diet.
you dont need that much ai if even at all for that low of dose - thats a therapy dose your on - 500mg/week is a beginner basic cycle - the ai is giving you dry joints and pain -i bet your e2 is crashed thru the floor
I say get bloodwork
I see people mentioning adding compounds to the stack and possibly bunk gear.
First things first, lets get your stats. Age, Height, weight, training experience....
The next question would be whats your diet like? are you eating enough of the right things to even achieve growth and strength gains?
Cycle Log is here with that info.
http://www.eroids.com/cycle_logs/mid-cycle-changes-with-addition-of-anavar
The reason I'm concerned is because my diet, training, and overall knowledge is much higher then during my first cycle. My first cycle nutrition was terrible (didn't know anything at the time). I still saw those dramatic increases in strength and size even with a horrible diet. I guess I expected a similiar outcome with a far better diet, training regime, and 2x the dose of Test.
Well with that info, I'll go with the masses and say Bloodwork would be the next step.
noob941get bloods brother privatemdlabs.com
I would like to use them but they don't have any lab locations in my state. I looked at some at home test kits but they don't seem to be reliable.
Goldmembereast coast?
No.
Well for me I don't have an increase in libido while cycling. In fact, I'd say I'm more level headed and patient while on cycle, and that goes for all forms of Test, Deca, Dbol, Anavar, Winstrol, 1-Test, Equipoise. I experience very little mood changes throughout cycle. Joint pain in ankle not sure make sure you are drinking plenty of water.
The only thing I see are results in are weight, strength, and endurance. Typically Test is a very slow and steady gainer for me. D-bol and deca results are much more dramatic that's often why people decide to add more compounds to later cycles.
Only tuely noticeable side of test is when my estrogen goes up my nipples get sensitive, and I watch more romantic comedies. D-Bol improves my mood I sleep fantastic while cycling with it, and have amazing action movie like dreams. Everything else mood is negligibly effected
Long story short your mood isn't an indication of good gear. My first test cycle was sust at 500mg a week and my results were lack luster. It's a slow and steady game, but as you add compounds your net results will be stack up and you will be more impressed with your overall results rather than individualistic results of a single cycle. Your body may be losing fat, and adding muscle. Just keep your head up and keep working.
With me as well there are no mood changes or increase in aggression. So it depends on person to person. Also, no apparent side affects as well.
Goldmemberare you running an AI with it? you can get blood work done for well under $100 if you really would like to get the answer
I am running Arimidex (.25mg EOD). I was running .25mg ED but with the lack of gains I though there might be a small possibility of lowering my estrogen too much and halting gains (even though that's probably impossible @ .25mg ED).
If it were me, id cut out the ai for a while and start it again if I started noticing estrogen sides like puffy/sensitive nipples .. low esro can make you feel like shit
I use 0.25mg eod on a gram of test
56tooAt 500 mg /wk I dont know why you would even need an AI. If I remember correctly Arimidex kills 80 or 85% of your estrogen. You do need estro to grow
Nice bro!
Everybody is Ai mental these days for some reason.. and without proper knowledge problems like the one posted are happening daily and folks are screaming "BUNK GEAR!" without realising estro is through the floor!
56tooRight on VV . Matter of fact Im so tired of seeing this that Im preparing a series of threads on estrogen and it's role in muscle growth. Maybe this will get me off my ass to go ahead and do it. Thanks brother
I look forwards to reading that bro!... myself and my big monster brit counterpart SDM have done similar articles and they sorta fell on dead ears :(..... i hope you can reach the right audience and increase these guys knowledge somewhat.
People are set in their ways with using AI's nowadays, they've become as much of a part of cycles as test. Paranoia about the slightest possibility of gyno makes it a tough call for most. I've worked with several guys on here to run without AI's without any disasters so far. An experienced AAS user should be able to spot a problem early enough to try it for themselves, then hit the AI IF NECESSARY.
Look forward to seeing your posts 56.
So right brother.
I have one of our highly respected members due to start a run without Ai very shortly.... its a killer little cycle and i know results will be impressive already and i am sure he will be giving a complete review as things get under way.
Side Note...... Ai as you say will be ON HAND.
I agree with this as well on that small of an amount
Sometimes its really hard to tell. the easiest most reliable way is a blood test to check levels.
Other than that is it a new source? just go back to your old one if you got better results.
Its a new source for me but I'm using the same exact gear (even same order) as my lifting partner and he has had no issues like I have but its also his first cycle.
Liquidzsend me a FR